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New Wall Connector :)

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My next experiment will be to plug in a depleted car while a charged car is plugged in. In that case I want to see the depleted car charge at the full 72A/80A, just as if the charged car weren't plugged in at all. If that experiment is successful, then I'll be completely happy with the connector purchases.

Almost forgot: I did wake up this morning around 4am (that's why I almost forgot), saw that both cars had completed charging, then set the S's charge limit a few notches higher. After around 10 minutes the car was charging at 74A. This is while the X was plugged in with a completed charge. So the final part of the experiment has completed successfully.
 
@K-MTG
Interesting scenario. I was just thinking about this from a different angle. I have had a HPWC at 80 amps for the last year and a half. Great set-up, good charging times, all charging fits in off-peak, etc. I recently had to remove the HPWC since I moved to an apartment with no charging availability. The original HPWC sits in a box. Should I sell it on Craig's list? How much could I get in light of the new ones on the market? It has the long cable so a very useful charger. The only advantage of the new HPWC is the ability to link multiple units together. The way I see it, if that scenario ever came up, I would buy a new unit and my current unit would be the slave.
Since I am not sure when that would be, I am still open to selling the HPWC, but need to be comfortable with the price.

Feedback welcome.
 
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@K-MTG
Interesting scenario. I was just thinking about this from a different angle. I have had a HPWC at 80 amps for the last year and a half. Great set-up, good charging times, all charging fits in off-peak, etc. I recently had to remove the HPWC since I moved to an apartment with no charging availability. The original HPWC sits in a box. Should I sell it on Craig's list? How much could I get in light of the new ones on the market? It has the long cable so a very useful charger. The only advantage of the new HPWC is the ability to link multiple units together. The way I see it, if that scenario ever came up, I would buy a new unit and my current unit would be the slave.
Since I am not sure when that would be, I am still open to selling the HPWC, but need to be comfortable with the price.

Feedback welcome.

I have seen a couple on eBay and Amazon, I believe you can sell it or take it to a local Hotel and see if they are interested.
 
I actually used the main panel as a splice box, which is a legal technique, and used insulated lugs (Polaris or Burndy lugs) which accept up to 3 wires per. One to the breaker, and one to each charger. We often use the same technique on certain solar installs where we need to tap into the main feeder wires of a panel.​

This is the equivalent of the "junction box" method. He spliced in the main panel likely because your wire runs were relatively short. A panelboard can be used to splice using insulated connectors (it's the equivalent of a junction box in this case).

That means your either your inspector was fine with the Polaris connectors, didn't know about NEC 210.17, or it wasn't inspected. Either way, it's not a safety problem in my opinion.

Some people won't want to do what your electrician did because of the longer, more costly runs of wire from the main/service panel, in which case they'll want this splice box or subpanel closer to the WC's.
 
This is the equivalent of the "junction box" method. He spliced in the main panel likely because your wire runs were relatively short. A panelboard can be used to splice using insulated connectors (it's the equivalent of a junction box in this case).

That means your either your inspector was fine with the Polaris connectors, didn't know about NEC 210.17, or it wasn't inspected. Either way, it's not a safety problem in my opinion.

Some people won't want to do what your electrician did because of the longer, more costly runs of wire from the main/service panel, in which case they'll want this splice box or subpanel closer to the WC's.

Are you sure the HPWC counts as an "outlet"? It seems to be an appliance to me.
 
Are you sure the HPWC counts as an "outlet"? It seems to be an appliance to me.

My interpretation is that the HPWC doesn't count as an outlet - the connection to it does.

Official definition:
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.

Now, with that said, article 625 tries to make EVSE as part of the wiring system and so you could argue the "outlet" is the HPWC's cable. I suppose it all depends how you want to argue it.

All of this is left up to interpretation by the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ), which starts with your inspector or code enforcement officer. If you choose to escalate, then you can usually seek the decision of the chief inspector / chief code enforcement officer / chief engineer. If you want to fight something further, many/most jurisdictions allow for issues to be escalated to some type of review committee authorized by the municipal or county board -- some committees will generally go with the chief inspector's decision, but you have a right to make a case. Finally, you can always file suit against the municipality or the county if you feel strongly. It's distributed governance, and the only person whose decision matters is your AHJ (and how far you want to try to take the appeals process). Very few cases end up in the courts, and since the Code is typically adopted at a local level and not nationally, finding precedent is difficult and costly. Unless you stand on principle, 99.99% of the time it will be easier and less costly (lawyer $$) just to do it the way the inspector wants.

It also means my interpretation or opinion isn't authoritative at all, and it plus $5 is worth a cup of coffee at Starbucks. And you - like others here - can always choose to ignore it and do whatever you want to do that makes you feel safe, as long as you accept the risks and liability that may come with it.

This distributed governance is why I generally poll a few different inspectors I've worked with as well as use some forums where they hang out to give me a consensus opinion. Some inspectors are very firm to the written word of the law, some are mostly focused on safety and will let stupid stuff slide, and some just collect a paycheck and sign it off if something isn't completely obvious.

In this particular case, most have told me that 210.17 seems a bit silly, and is mostly common sense - you don't charge a car on a general-purpose circuit with a freezer, some lights, and some other stuff. That said, the inspectors that typically go by the word of the code say they have to enforce it, which means a piece of equipment that charges a car needs a dedicated branch circuit and should not be shared. Others told me it wouldn't be a big deal.

...and most of the forums are, for the most part, saying "nice problem to have if you need multiple Tesla chargers... you can afford multiple cars near $100k and yet you don't want to invest $100 in a panelboard?"

(Another example is the Los Angeles city code enforcement. I've heard reports of LA inspectors refusing to green-tag HPWC's installed on breakers smaller than 100A. This is because they are sticking firmly to the code's wording that says you use the nameplate rating. Tesla's nameplate lists 80A charging, 100A circuit. They wouldn't budge even when offered the instruction manual that shows how it may be installed on smaller breakers. No amount of sending them my FAQ or pictures of other installations will change their position.)
 
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This is the equivalent of the "junction box" method. He spliced in the main panel likely because your wire runs were relatively short. A panelboard can be used to splice using insulated connectors (it's the equivalent of a junction box in this case).

That means your either your inspector was fine with the Polaris connectors, didn't know about NEC 210.17, or it wasn't inspected. Either way, it's not a safety problem in my opinion.

Some people won't want to do what your electrician did because of the longer, more costly runs of wire from the main/service panel, in which case they'll want this splice box or subpanel closer to the WC's.
This installation made me think of another way. If you have physical space in the main panel, but no capacity headroom to add another 100A breaker, you could just use the additional breaker in the main panel with master/slave HPWC units. This would be an improvement over the Polaris connectors. It seems pretty obvious and I only mention it because I haven't specifically seen it stated this way in this thread.
 
This installation made me think of another way. If you have physical space in the main panel, but no capacity headroom to add another 100A breaker, you could just use the additional breaker in the main panel with master/slave HPWC units. This would be an improvement over the Polaris connectors. It seems pretty obvious and I only mention it because I haven't specifically seen it stated this way in this thread.

True, if you have room. Bottom line, it's preferred to use separate breakers to connect each of the HPWC units. Some inspectors will be ok with insulated connectors, others won't. If you want to save on cabling, rather than making two runs back to your main panel, you can place a subpanel or junction box near the HPWC's and use a single run from the service panel.
 
Just as an aside, the equivalent regulation in the UK code (BS7671) makes it clear that here we are allowed to have multiple EVSE on the same circuit but not shared with anything else and only if that circuit is rated for the sum of all the EVSE. It does then explicitly refer to the case of EVSEs like the Tesla WC that can share power - what the regulation calls "load control", but it only allows for this to be taken into account for a "distribution circuit" - ie. upstream from some switchgear. So it's more explicitly written and equivalent to your most strict reading of the US code.

The chapter of the UK regulations specific to EVs is still available as a free download: go here and look for "BS 7671:2008 Amendment 2:2013"

The bit I'm referring to is regulation 722.311
 
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So I was at my service center today and the service manager told me the new Wall Connector can indeed be daisy chained for power as well as communications. They did not have one in stock though to look at so still waiting for more people to do the daisy chain install to find out what I need to do for my single install with a future daisy chain. Thankfully I am getting by with my J1772 EVSE at home that also charges our LEAF and workplace charging.
 
So I was at my service center today and the service manager told me the new Wall Connector can indeed be daisy chained for power as well as communications. They did not have one in stock though to look at so still waiting for more people to do the daisy chain install to find out what I need to do for my single install with a future daisy chain. Thankfully I am getting by with my J1772 EVSE at home that also charges our LEAF and workplace charging.

That service manager has probably seen exactly the same number of the new wall connectors that you have.

I have seen them. I am telling you, definitively, that the new wall connector does not have the lugs to "daisy chain" the conductors from the panel into one wall connector, and from that wall connector to the next one. The connections simply don't exist. I've validated with engineering at Tesla that they aren't intended to.

Here is the way that you connect multiple wall connectors using the new "sharing" capabilites:
What's up with HPWC?
 
Almost forgot: I did wake up this morning around 4am (that's why I almost forgot), saw that both cars had completed charging, then set the S's charge limit a few notches higher. After around 10 minutes the car was charging at 74A. This is while the X was plugged in with a completed charge. So the final part of the experiment has completed successfully.

@sowbug Have you ever gotten a chance to test if one car is at say 20% and the other car is at say 70% with them both set to charge to 75% what happens? (Does it give more power to the 20% car?)
 
@sowbug Have you ever gotten a chance to test if one car is at say 20% and the other car is at say 70% with them both set to charge to 75% what happens? (Does it give more power to the 20% car?)

I just tried this. X at about 20% charge. S at about 55% charge. Both had charge limit set about a half-notch below bottom of range-charge limit. I plugged them both in and let them settle for about 10 minutes. After that, the X was charging at 51A, and the S at 18A. Note that those two values don't add up to 80A, which is unfortunate.

I'll take a look again in a couple hours, when the X should have caught up. Presumably the charge rate will even out a little by then.
 
I just tried this. X at about 20% charge. S at about 55% charge. Both had charge limit set about a half-notch below bottom of range-charge limit. I plugged them both in and let them settle for about 10 minutes. After that, the X was charging at 51A, and the S at 18A. Note that those two values don't add up to 80A, which is unfortunate.

@sowbug Thank you for doing this and reporting back!

It is too bad that the WCs are leaving some amps on the table so to speak. I wonder if Tesla can/will provide firmware updates to the WCs. If so, can the car feed the FW to it? (I doubt it.)
 
One of many new HPWC threads...

Anyway, I found my HPWCv2 was in an error state today, probably happened when I unplugged it during charging but I didn't notice until later. HPWC showed red LED. Plugging into the car I got a red ring and a red/green LED. Had to cycle the breaker and it was back to normal.


Hmmmm
 
It is too bad that the WCs are leaving some amps on the table so to speak. I wonder if Tesla can/will provide firmware updates to the WCs. If so, can the car feed the FW to it? (I doubt it.)

Tried again tonight with a similar setup but made sure to actually plug both cars in. This time the car with the higher starting charge ranged between 26-30A, and the car with the lower charge ranged between 48-51A. So it seems to be working as expected/hoped.

As for firmware updates, I have wondered exactly the same thing. It seems unlikely they'd build the HPWC without any update capabilities, and it's not crazy to think they could deliver a microcontroller's firmware update (probably somewhere between 128KB and 2MB) through the connector-to-car protocol.
 
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