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Nissan Leaf
- Thread starter efusco
- Start date
I will see if any good kits surface for either car. It won't be legal to use since neither car has a tow rating, but 90% of my trailer trips are very short range anyway and low probability for being stopped by the police.
Maybe even Tesla will see the light and offer a hitch option on the european Model S. All comparable cars (like the BMW 5 series) are offered with factory mounted, removable hitches and good tow ratings (usually 3000-4500 lbs).
It's pretty easy to do a Leaf because the underside is just like any other car. I can't see a place for a hitch on the Model S--unless you're thinking of drilling into the battery? That wouldn't be my first choice though.
About the only way I think would work is to mount the hitch in the footwell of the third row and then have the pieces come out the back. This would mean cutting a few holes in the rear :smile:
I spent today at the NRG Energy HQ. NRG is one of the largest owners of electric generation in the U.S. and also the owner of EVgo charging. NRG's CEO, David Crane, owns three cars: a Tesla Roadster, a Fisker Karma, and a Nissan Leaf. I was told that he likes the Leaf best. (No accounting for taste...) I'm really interested in learning if Crane has a Model S reservation.
Well, I was sure it would be completely obvious to anyone who has seen and/or driven both a LEAF and a Model S. Apparently I did not see what you and others see, and since you ask, I will explain. Warning: Long post ahead.
I was very excited about the LEAF and made a reservation as soon as I could in April 2010. In October 2010, my wife and I were in Los Angeles and participated in the Volt Unplugged Tour at the El Segundo Best Buy one weekend and the Nissan Drive Electric Tour at Century City the next.
I started off being very sceptical of the Volt: We already have a hybrid (2005 Prius) and I am looking for a BEV, not another hybrid. I too want an all EV household, particularly since our house has been all electric since 2006 and solar since 2009.
Also, 15 years of driving rental cars has taught me that GM cars are terrible and I would never spend my own money on one. Yet, the Volt met all, and exceeded some of my expectations. Exterior design is sporty and pleasing. Acceleration, handling and steering feedback are all very good. The build quality and interior finish are excellent. The door closing experience is fantastic, my favourite feature. Only Cadillac, Audi and some VW cars have the same door close quality, and I tested every single car at the Minneapolis auto show. Interior space is adequate and my wife (who is very short) is comfortable in the seat without pillows.
The LEAF, on the other hand, was a huge disappointment. From the back it looks like a woman with a big, fat, ugly, butt. From the front it looks like a praying mantis. From the side it is as exciting as a brick.
Open the rear hatch and you see a small and awkwardly shaped cargo area. The deep hole is nice to keep a few grocery bags in place, but it is doesn't work well with a couple of suitcases. So, since it is electric and has no engine, you open the bonnet in the hope of finding more storage space, but no, the Nissan engineers went out of their way to deliberately fill the front with stuff that looks exactly like an internal combustion engine.
I found it very hard to reach the lever to move the driver seat backwards before getting into the car. Fit and finish is disappointing, every piece of the interior screams cheap plastic. The head-rest pushes my head too far forward, causing neck pain. (I've found this to be a problem in all Nissan's, but not other brands.) My wife could not get comfortable in the seats, and would require pillows.
I drove it mostly in Eco mode to experience maximum accelerator off regen, but found acceleration to be poor compared to the Prius. Since they were making such a big deal of the V6-like acceleration during the briefing, I asked for, and received a second drive, during which I drove in normal mode. If anything, it felt worse. The steering feel is way too light for my taste, and the wheel does not telescope.
Some of the things that Nissan did get right on the LEAF are the telematics and driver information displays, both in content (more detailed and useful than Volt) and in appearance (clearer, less cluttered, and better positioned). I also much prefer the speed display above the steering wheel as in the Prius, rather than through the wheel. Finally, the location of the charge port is perfect. I still cannot figure out why Tesla decided on the left rear corner.
So, the conclusion was that Nissan cut corners to make the LEAF cheap/affordable, while GM realized that the Volt would be expensive, and therefore decided to build a car that matches the price.
Once back home, I called some dealers in Michigan and ordered a Volt, which I received in April 2011. It was the second Volt registered in Minnesota. I later found out that the first one belonged to a co-worker of my wife and came from California. I kept the LEAF reservation in the hope that I could eventually convince myself that it is not so bad, or at least until we have a chance to drive the Focus and the Model S.
In March 2012 I got an e-mail from Nissan saying I could finally go to a local dealer to order a LEAF. So we went to the one that has a LEAF demo to take another look and drive. After driving the Volt for a year, it looked and felt even worse. The bug eye headlights were even bigger than I remembered. The drive was no better than before. I asked the salesman if he’d ever driven the Volt. He said no, so I offered him to drive ours. He oohed, aahed and wowed the entire drive.
In April 2012 we were again in LA, and went to the Tesla store there. After about an hour of scrutinizing the Model S beta on display and the trim samples, we made a reservation.
Yes, the LEAF is an overpriced economy car, but it is not nice. I would much rather continue to (have my wife
) drive the Prius than drive a LEAF.
Nissan cutting costs to get it down below a (even a non-plug-in) Prius price (after incentives) was a wise choice when they are trying to get high volume.
If it were Volt priced, I would not have got one. Same with many others I spoke with.
I think they were fairly shrewd and calculated where they cut corners. Sure, the interior feels a bit on the cheap side, but it is workable.
Sure, the styling is "quirky" (to be kind) but many overlook that because of the functionality they get from the vehicle.
Some reviews raved about chassis stiffness and cabin quiet considering the price.
Personally I find the seats comfortable, and no problem from the headrest. Too bad it didn't fit you well, but it does work well for many others.
I drive my LEAF every day, and continue to enjoy:
* Very quiet ride even at 75MPH. (Listening to music and talking on bluetooth hands-free works great)
* Integrated/standard GPS/NAV showing charging locations is very handy.
* Plays my MP3s off of flash memory which was another important standard feature.
* XM sat radio and traffic overlays is also a standard feature.
* Backup camera with tracking lines is very helpful.
* Standard LED headlights work great.
* Dashboard is easy to read, with MPH above very visible, and sensible power/regen meter below.
* Access to CHAdeMO high speed charging has been useful in extending my range for some trips. (Although current scarcity of CHAdeMO has been a disappointment.)
* I do find the seats comfortable, and the highway ride very smooth.
* The overall car size seems "just right" to me. My teenage kids fit fine in the back, I have no problem using the back for groceries and small luggage duty.
I wish the acceleration were better, although 0-40 in non-eco isn't too bad.
I wish the styling were better.
I wish the range was a little further, but not willing to pay more for it.
I wish there was more CHAdeMO around.
Hopefully Nissan improves on these with "LEAF 2.0"
If it were Volt priced, I would not have got one. Same with many others I spoke with.
I think they were fairly shrewd and calculated where they cut corners. Sure, the interior feels a bit on the cheap side, but it is workable.
Sure, the styling is "quirky" (to be kind) but many overlook that because of the functionality they get from the vehicle.
Some reviews raved about chassis stiffness and cabin quiet considering the price.
Personally I find the seats comfortable, and no problem from the headrest. Too bad it didn't fit you well, but it does work well for many others.
I drive my LEAF every day, and continue to enjoy:
* Very quiet ride even at 75MPH. (Listening to music and talking on bluetooth hands-free works great)
* Integrated/standard GPS/NAV showing charging locations is very handy.
* Plays my MP3s off of flash memory which was another important standard feature.
* XM sat radio and traffic overlays is also a standard feature.
* Backup camera with tracking lines is very helpful.
* Standard LED headlights work great.
* Dashboard is easy to read, with MPH above very visible, and sensible power/regen meter below.
* Access to CHAdeMO high speed charging has been useful in extending my range for some trips. (Although current scarcity of CHAdeMO has been a disappointment.)
* I do find the seats comfortable, and the highway ride very smooth.
* The overall car size seems "just right" to me. My teenage kids fit fine in the back, I have no problem using the back for groceries and small luggage duty.
I wish the acceleration were better, although 0-40 in non-eco isn't too bad.
I wish the styling were better.
I wish the range was a little further, but not willing to pay more for it.
I wish there was more CHAdeMO around.
Hopefully Nissan improves on these with "LEAF 2.0"
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Agree.
How much time do you spend behind your own car in traffic? :wink:
I have to say that I sort of thought the LEAF looks might grow on me, but I think I like it less now than when it came out. I'd over look it if it produced superior efficiency/greater range, but I just don't get the payoff for the weird looks. At one point I thought I might pick up a used LEAF someday, but probably not. Maybe as a winter beater to save another EV from the salt.
Have not, but we are going to Chicago in two weeks for the Get Amped tour. I am really looking forward to the drive experience, but I share the same concerns as TEG, and also the lack of adaptive cruise control and accident avoidance. I am also concerned that the regen will not be strong enough.
I had the same concerns. The car is big, but driving it doesn't feel like it. The regen is not as weak as some here portray. A bit less than the roadster. The rest of the car makes up for the shortcomings.
SByer
'08 #383
The Fit-EV is fun! I liked driving it better than the Volt. I still haven't had a chance to drive a Leaf. I didn't bother with the Coda, since it's got that 50/50 styling (looks OK from at least 50 feet away when it's going at least 50 mph).
I think Nissan did well at keeping the price down. And even with the weird looks, it looks better than the Coda.
The Coda is not the worst looking car I've ever seen. That honor would be bestowed onto the Nissan Juke.
I saw another Leaf this morning. Funny thing is, as it approached I thought maybe it was a Prius. It looks better in black, as do all cars. It might actually not be as weird looking as I once thought.
I'm a LEAF owner for the past 11 months. The things I like about the LEAF have nothing to do with the LEAF in particular. Rather they are just qualities of a BEV:
* Lower operating cost per mile. I'm averaging about 5 miles per kWh
* Never having to go to the gas station. I just plug it in at night
* Quiet ride
The things I don't like about the LEAF
* Poor build quality -- Remember the Lexus ad with the "ball bearing test"? The gaps are so large on the LEAF, the ball bearing would fall between the body panels. A bowling ball test would be more appropriate for the LEAF.
* Rear styling -- I actually like the front. It's just the rear end which flares near the bumper that's very odd. They should have just made it a regular wagon back like the Prius V, which would have the added bonus of providing more cargo room.
* Body lean -- It drives like a Camry
We bought the LEAF because it was the only BEV at the time within our price range. I like the execution of the Volt (build quality, ride, handling, etc), but IMO it solves a different use case -- the 1-car household which wants the benefits of an EV and the ability to drive long distances that an ICE brings, all in one car. For a two car household like ours, a BEV and ICE as separate cars makes sense. I wish Chevy made a pure EV version of the Volt. I imagine it could even be priced less that current Volt, or would be priced the same and deliver better-than-the-LEAF electric driving range.
I agree with this 100%. The Model S is $20K too expensive IMO.
I'm a big fan of Tesla and BEVs. However, I'm no longer optimistic about BEVs gaining broad adoption in the next 5 years. LEAF sales have fallen to under 700 units/month, and that's one of the most affordable BEVs out there. Model S is too expensive for the vast majority. It's not a discretionary spending item like a $600 iPad. To cross the chasm, BEVs will need to have advantages over ICEs with few, if any, compromises. Will Tesla's GenIII break through? Battery cost seems to be the limiting factor, and I don't see cost/kWh dropping enough in the 3 years between now and when GenIII comes out to make for a compelling offering. Sure, there are some things that could change this, like free charging stations at every store and office building (rendering battery capacity irrelevant for all drives except the rare long distance ones). But in the 2 years since I first reserved my LEAF, I haven't seen much progress in the build-out of charging infrastructure, and I live in Silicon Valley of all places, which is where I'd expect to see it.
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