Nissan Leaf

[TonyWilliams]

the first 4th bar loss has been reported. it appears there is no flattening out of the degradation and instead a steepening of the curve.

August 31, 2012 - LEAF owner Scott Yarosh is the first to lose 4 of the 12 capacity bars, for approximately 33.75% - 39.99% total battery capacity loss. He has scheduled to return his leased car to Nissan on September 15, 2012. His car was sent to the Nissan testing center (at Nissan's request), in Casa Grande, Arizona in July 2012 with several other customer LEAFs. The battery was removed by Nissan, however no repairs were made or promised. Below is a table with the number of battery capacity bars missing on this car, the percentage lost, date, miles driven to date, and months in service.

1 bar - 15.00% to 21.24%: Apr 07, 2012, 20000 miles, 10 months of service since new
2 bars - 21.25% to 27.24%: Jun 07, 2012, 23800 miles, 12 months (3800 miles/2 months)
3 bars - 27.50% to 33.74%: July 07, 2012, 25870 miles, 13 months (2070 miles/1 month)
4 bars - 33.75% to 29.99%: Aug 31, 2012, 28190 miles 14 months (2320 miles /1.7 months)
5 bars - 40.00% is the next threshold displayed on the LEAF's dash instrument of 12 total bars.

 

[chimpanzee]

Is It Time to Declare the Nissan Leaf a Flop?

Is It Time to Declare the Nissan Leaf a Flop? | Business | TIME.com

The headline for a recent Detroit News story has it that the “20,000 sales target [is] unlikely” for the Nissan Leaf. But “unlikely” is probably understating things. It appears as if Nissan won’t get halfway to its 20,000-Leaf target for 2012, nor will it top last year’s mark of 9,679 units sold—which was itself a disappointment.
Thus far in 2012, Nissan has sold 4,228 all-electric Leafs, a decrease of 31.5% compared to the same period last year. Last month, 685 Leaf purchases were made in the U.S., a 50% decline compared to August 2011.
It’s understandable that electric-car sales aren’t exactly booming. This is a niche market, after all, and one that’s very new and unfamiliar to consumers. Even with government incentives, plug-ins are still very expensive compared to gas-powered cars, and all-electric vehicles like the Leaf can’t be used practically for road trips, or any journey of more than 75 miles or so.
Still, one would expect that even if Leaf sales weren’t going gangbusters, they’d at least not be on the decline. That is, these are the expectations one would have if they believed the Leaf had a decent future ahead of it.
....

The age of the Leaf, and mass-produced electric cars in general, is still quite young. It’s possible that the Leaf could one day catch on in a substantial way, or that another vehicle that runs purely on electric power could become as commonplace as the Toyota Corolla on roads in the future.

 

[AnOutsider]

Might be a bit too premature to outright call it a flop, but I do think Nissan needs to dial up the range.

 

[JRP3]

And improve the looks, and offer a better battery warranty considering what's happening in AZ.

 

[Adm]

The problem is, why buy now when the 2013 version will be better and probably cheaper...

 

[jkirkebo]

Might be a bit too premature to outright call it a flop, but I do think Nissan needs to dial up the range.

Maybe so. But they can (yet) only make 20,000 a year and they are selling everyone they make. When there is excess capacity and production outside of Japan, we will see how popular it is.

Last month were #2 top selling Leaf month in Norway BTW. The Leaf now accounts for ~40% of Nissan sales over here, being second only to the Quashqai. More Nissan dealers are scrambling to be certified so they can start selling it.

 

[jerry33]

Other than their poor job of handling the battery issues in hot climates, service issues in general, the flakey CarWings, and the ridiculously short range (all of which may or may not affect an individual Leaf purchaser), the main problem with the Leaf is that the dealer salespeople make more money on selling ICE cars already in the lot so they will do anything to avoid selling a Leaf. You have to really want a Leaf badly before they will reluctantly sell you one. I found this hurdle too difficult to overcome, so I never purchased one.

The right thing to do would be to have a separate Leaf business in the dealer building. That is the sales and service people would not be in the same command chain as the ICE people in the same way that the parts department or body shop department is not in the same chain of command as the sales and service personnel. That would at least give the Leaf a fighting chance.

 

[sp4rk]

You are 100% correct. Leaf sales are dismal only because of this.

I love my Leaf. Is it perfect? No. Is range "ridiculously" low, NO. It's fine for 90% of my driving.

The weak link are the L3 charging stations.

Nissan seems to be fighting internally. Dealers are juxtaposed to corporate.

My local dealer only had 2 "qualified" sales people. No one being helped by ICE sales would be steered to EV because the sales people would lose their commission.

This is ridiculous.

Now they are sending all sales to Leaf training. What training?!!!

So blame the dealer network, not Nissan.

Then again, why is Fontana Nissan "all over" the mynissanleaf.com web site? Clearly dealers can set their own policy?

 

[Doug_G]

Can't this be in the LEAF thread?

It is, now. -mod

 

[jerry33]

You are 100% correct. Leaf sales are dismal only because of this.

I love my Leaf. Is it perfect? No. Is range "ridiculously" low, NO. It's fine for 90% of my driving.

That's why I put the subjective and localized things first, because they don't affect everyone as different folks have different needs. I don't have a problem with this. I thought that the Leaf would be perfect for Denise because she never drives out of town, works about ten miles away and only puts on between 8,000 and 9,000 miles/year. But she refused because every so often she does petsitting and stays there for a few days. Because it's a condo she wouldn't be able to plug it in and she would drive more than the 60 miles the Leaf is capable of (You have to factor the worst case, not the best case for this kind of thing).

The weak link are the L3 charging stations.

In my opinion, if you are driving locally and have to charge anywhere other than at home on a regular basis, the range is too low.

Now they are sending all sales to Leaf training. What training?!!!

So blame the dealer network, not Nissan.

Agreed. The problem here is that customers don't deal directly with Nissan, so from a customer perspective Dealer = Nissan. And the dealers know that if the Leaf does very well (and it has the potential to do so) about 3/4 of them will be out of business because of the loss of parts and service revenue, so only a very few dealers are going to be keen to promote the Leaf. Training won't alter this situation.

Then again, why is Fontana Nissan "all over" the mynissanleaf.com web site? Clearly dealers can set their own policy?

Doesn't Fontana Nissan host the mynissanleaf.com site? That is aren't the servers Fontana's? At least that's the impression I got.

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Sorry, Doug. It took me longer to post my response than it did for you to post yours.

 

[sp4rk]

My dealer tells me that they do not make money off service on ICE cars any more due to warranties. And lately they have been making quite a push to do oil changes.

As for Fontana hosting? If you ping the two web sites, you'll find two entirely different IP addresses. So if you mean one hosts the others web sites, I doubt it. Unless you mean one pays for the other? No idea.

"In my opinion, if you are driving locally and have to charge anywhere other than at home on a regular basis, the range is too low."

Agreed.

 

[jerry33]

As for Fontana hosting? If you ping the two web sites, you'll find two entirely different IP addresses.

That would be quite normal. Setting up a zone with a completely different IP address is standard practice if the two sites are on the same server, and they might not be. And of course, it could be just that Fontana is the biggest sponsor of the site.

 

[Duckjybe]

Perhaps the Volt is eating in to Leaf sales as GM dealerships start to get their act together.

 

[TEG]

(Somewhat recap)

Nissan is gearing up to make a big LEAF push as the Tennessee factory finally comes online.
The 2013 models will have some attractive updates, like 6KW charger, more color choices, leather (if you want it), perhaps a bit more range, and a stripped down variant (perhaps omitting the GPS/NAV among other things) to get a lower entry price.

I think they take the sales slowdown very seriously. I think they are "regrouping" and planning how to get sales perked up again, particularly since they want to finish selling the last of the 2012s before the 2013s arrive. There is a typical quandary when you have improvements coming and you notice that more people go into "wait" mode instead of "buy" mode.

 

[surfingslovak]

That would be quite normal. Setting up a zone with a completely different IP address is standard practice if the two sites are on the same server, and they might not be. And of course, it could be just that Fontana is the biggest sponsor of the site.

I can confirm that MNL is a separate entity operated by Pacific New Media. I interacted with Mike Szostak, its owner, couple of times, and he is not affiliated with Nissan from what I can tell. It's worth noting that the open letter Nissan sent to the owner community in late July was delivered to Mike personally.

 

[dpeilow]

There are some crazy low leases over here at the moment. I've heard of £275/month for a 2 year lease with 5 months down. After tax rebates, that's effectively halfed. My brother is test driving one this weekend, as he says that at that rate he is saving so much money on petrol that he is £100/month better off and gets a free new car.

We know they are probably clearing out stock for the better 2013 model, but at that price he will overlook its shortcomings. After two years you can trade it in anyway.

 

[AndrewBissell]

Hi David - can you please explain the "after tax rebates that's effectively halved" point?

 

[TEG]

EV race in Japan including LEAF, Tesla (Roadsters), etc.:

 

[DSA]

Wow, that Nismo Leaf is the best looking Leaf I've ever seen. And well engineered, too, to put up those times with standard Leaf drivetrain components. I like the honesty and good attitude of the Nismo team. At the end it shows the Nismo Leaf having the fastest lap by a few seconds, and they said they improved their lap times by 6 seconds by the end, and I think they said the lead Tesla was losing ground at the end. So were they (Nismo) mainly improving their lap times because the driver was getting more used to the car or track? If so, it sounds like they could have won if they had gotten some more practice time in and started out as fast as they finished. Think they'll ever hop across the Pacific for the Refuel Races?

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Perhaps the Volt is eating in to Leaf sales as GM dealerships start to get their act together.

I would bet on it. I went to test drive a Volt a few months ago and found the Salesman to be very knowledgeable and very motivated to make the sale. He followed up by phone a few days after my visit as well. I didn't buy the car, but came away impressed by the GM dealership and the Volt.

 

[JRP3]

Yes I hope they can work some of the Nismo LEAF into future LEAF designs.