No home charging option for first year of Model Y

[psingh]

Hi All, I have booked my Model Y and estimated delivery is in May 2022. I don’t have home charging available in my condo. So for initial period could be 10-12 months I might be using super chargers mostly. I average 12000 miles during that time so approximately 50 times of supercharging in an year. Do you think it will degrade the battery performance in long run. Service advisor says it’s totally fine but wanted to seek advice from experienced people.

Thanks

 

[GtiMart]

I say charge on level 2 as much as it makes sense for your way of life. Use a 120V plug if you have access to one. Use Superchargers the rest of the time. It's a car, not a decoration trinket, use it as you need it. If your particular situation makes you supercharge a lot then so be it. Maybe after a few years you'll have 6% degradation instead of 4-5%? I say don't deprive yourself from benefiting from a great car for such small things. We've seen many people report a huge amount of supercharging and no significant negative effects.
EDIT: Yes, unless you have an LFP battery, keeping it under 80% unless you need the additional energy is a good idea, and staying over 10-20% is a great rule of thumb too. Again, use the car as you need it.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Thank you all for your amazing responses and sharing great knowledge. This was the response I received from my service advisor:
In regard to your concerns about charging, you can rely on supercharging but it is not ideal. The main reason for that is convenience and it will accelerate the degradation of your battery pack faster than if you were to use a home charging solution.

It is not recommended to use supercharging as your primary means to charge as over time, your battery back will lose capacity faster than in comparison to using a Tesla wall connector or outlet. However, the frequency of how often you supercharge is a factor as well. If you are supercharging 1-2 times a week versus 4-5 times a week will affect your car differently.

Now it does sound like this will only be temporary but I would recommend getting home charging at your earliest convenience in order to preserve the long term battery back health as much as possible. I hope this was helpful.

But based on your response I think it’s ok to operate on supercharger being mindful of not avoiding high voltage SC and don’t wait for battery to completely drain. So I would operate between 20-80% and charge my batteries from 50-80%. So if I charger 30% every week on SC I can add roughly around 80 miles. For rest I have to search for level 2 chargers. Can anybody verify this approach. Thanks

I have a similar ~1 year home charging logistics constraint. I'm getting along just fine going to a 70 KW supercharger about once a week to fill from 20% to 80%. No sign of any trouble from it and there's a great lunch place to walk to from the station.

Home charging is of course easier and maybe slightly nicer to the pack. But certainly not required.

 

[jcanoe]

But based on your response I think it’s ok to operate on supercharger being mindful of not avoiding high voltage SC and don’t wait for battery to completely drain. So I would operate between 20-80% and charge my batteries from 50-80%. So if I charger 30% every week on SC I can add roughly around 80 miles. For rest I have to search for level 2 chargers. Can anybody verify this approach. Thanks

If you use a Supercharger once a week, charging from 20% or 30% up to 80%, that should be fine until you can arrange for home charging. Don't forget about public Level 2 charging. Level 2 charging while you dine, exercise etc. can handle most of your day to day charging needs in an hour or two hours of charging.

 

[Njbrandon]

I’ve been almost exclusively supercharging the past 13 months and 24,000 miles. My battery stayed around 297-300 miles most of that time until this week it’s been showing 311.

 

[THF2021MY]

I’ve been charging my 2021 MY LR at home on a standard 110v outlet since I got it in September. My work schedule is unique so even though it’s 30 miles one way to work I don’t usually go and come back home the same day. Obviously I don’t usually go to work 5 days a week either. However, on occasion I do go round-trip to work 3-5 days in a row.

Depending on my driving style on a given day my consumption is 24-34% round trip. I usually have 12-15 hours at home overnight. I charge at 1.53% per hour using 110v. Thus if I’m home 13.5 hours I recoup about 21%. If I start at 80% SoC on day one I’m going to end up operating in the 20-30% range after day 3 or 4. That’s when I head to a supercharger.

I used a Supercharger on December 27 as I’d been taking people to the airport for several days. Yesterday I used a Supercharger for the first time since then. I didn’t need to, but I wanted to get some data to confirm I don’t need to spend $1,200 to have a 14-50 circuit and outlet in my garage.

In December I spent $6.46 putting 34kwh in my car at 19 cents per kWh. About a half a tank of battery power. Even if I had to do that once a week it would take 3.5 years to spend $1,200. At home I can charge for about 12 cents/kWh.

All that to say that using 110v to charge a Tesla is not the end of the world if you don’t have a long daily commute.

My next license plate says it all:

EV YMMV

 

[jcanoe]

Many have used Level 1 (120V) charging and understand its limitations as far as charging speed and charging in cold temperatures. Home Level 2 charging (240CV), no matter the circuit amperage rating, is a big step up in terms of charging an EV.

Depending on where you live the local power utility company may offer some financial incentives to install a Level 2 charging station at your home or workplace.

 

[mswlogo]

If you use a Supercharger once a week, charging from 20% or 30% up to 80%, that should be fine until you can arrange for home charging. Don't forget about public Level 2 charging. Level 2 charging while you dine, exercise etc. can handle most of your day to day charging needs in an hour or two hours of charging.

Level 2 chargers while you dine, shop or exercise are typically a joke. They are often low wattage. The only level 2 chargers worth your time are at hotels, airports or work where you’ll spend a long time.

There is one in front of Wegmans always busy. Not worth the time to plug in.

 

[DanDi58]

Make sure you read through the Owner's Manual - it has lots of good official info about how to maintain the battery with your charging habits. They used to have a PDF version you could download, but no loner - but here is the link to the version they keep updated - Model Y Owner's Manual | Tesla

 

[jcanoe]

Level 2 chargers while you dine, shop or exercise are typically a joke. They are often low wattage. The only level 2 chargers worth your time are at hotels, airports or work where you’ll spend a long time.

There is one in front of Wegmans always busy. Not worth the time to plug in.

Really, a joke? The free to use Chargepoint Level 2 chargers that I use are all 6kW chargers. 60 to 90 minutes is enough time to eat a meal and add ~20 miles to the range of my Model Y. I typically charge using the public chargers four times a week. I laugh every time I plug in knowing I am saving ~$400 per year.

 

[boulder.dude]

I’ve been charging my 2021 MY LR at home on a standard 110v outlet since I got it in September. My work schedule is unique so even though it’s 30 miles one way to work I don’t usually go and come back home the same day. Obviously I don’t usually go to work 5 days a week either. However, on occasion I do go round-trip to work 3-5 days in a row.

Depending on my driving style on a given day my consumption is 24-34% round trip. I usually have 12-15 hours at home overnight. I charge at 1.53% per hour using 110v. Thus if I’m home 13.5 hours I recoup about 21%. If I start at 80% SoC on day one I’m going to end up operating in the 20-30% range after day 3 or 4. That’s when I head to a supercharger.

I used a Supercharger on December 27 as I’d been taking people to the airport for several days. Yesterday I used a Supercharger for the first time since then. I didn’t need to, but I wanted to get some data to confirm I don’t need to spend $1,200 to have a 14-50 circuit and outlet in my garage.

In December I spent $6.46 putting 34kwh in my car at 19 cents per kWh. About a half a tank of battery power. Even if I had to do that once a week it would take 3.5 years to spend $1,200. At home I can charge for about 12 cents/kWh.

All that to say that using 110v to charge a Tesla is not the end of the world if you don’t have a long daily commute.

My next license plate says it all:

EV YMMV

Many have used Level 1 (120V) charging and understand its limitations as far as charging speed and charging in cold temperatures. Home Level 2 charging (240CV), no matter the circuit amperage rating, is a big step up in terms of charging an EV.

Depending on where you live the local power utility company may offer some financial incentives to install a Level 2 charging station at your home or workplace.

Charging at 220V is also more efficient (less electricity loss) than 110V, regardless of amperage.

 

[mswlogo]

Really, a joke? The free to use Chargepoint Level 2 chargers that I use are all 6kW chargers. 60 to 90 minutes is enough time to eat a meal and add ~20 miles to the range of my Model Y. I typically charge using the public chargers four times a week. I laugh every time I plug in knowing I am saving ~$400 per year.

20 miles is a joke. That’s ~4.4kwh which about $1.00 worth of fuel. So you do 400 charges (400 hours) to save $400.00 LOL. Do you park cars for a living or something?

In fact, I’m sitting in front of “free” ChargePoint this minute. I’m at the hospital waiting for my wife to get an MRI. It’s gonna be a few hours and my 2019 Chevy Volt battery is empty. So I figured why not get $2.00 of free fuel.

F’n thing won’t work. I have a charge point account. Tap the phone blah blah says to plug in car. Communicating with car and then does nothing. Called them and they said they will have to send a technician out to fix it. Yeah right.

The free ones are either broken, occupied (not charging) or ridiculously slow. Once in a blue moon I got my free $1.00 of fuel. I stopped even looking for them. Sometimes I’ll grab the spot for the great parking spot, plug in and not even pay attention if it charges or not.

The one I’m in front of is a typical whopping 6.3kw Shared. So if someone else is charging that’s about 15A 10 miles hour.

Quick stops to grab a bite to eat at a SC is fine. On Level 2 it’s joke. And it’s usually crappy Level 2 at that.

If getting a $1.00 worth of fuel is worth your time. Go for it. I laugh when I see a Model X at one of these free Charge points at Wegmans. Probably adds 8 miles for the whole charge.

ICE owners seeing this behavior, laugh and think, I’ll stick with ICE.

 

[jcanoe]

20 miles is a joke. That’s ~4.4kwh which about $1.00 worth of fuel. So you do 400 charges (400 hours) to save $400.00 LOL. Do you park cars for a living or something?

It is 200V and 30A for 6kW. Most of these free charging sessions add 8 to 10 kWh to the battery. I don't follow a set schedule as I am retired. 60 to 90 minutes is the time it takes me to enjoy a leisurely breakfast or dinner. I mostly charge at night or on the weekend, plug in when no one is using the Chargepoint equipment. Up to 40 kWh, per week, free electricity works for me. This is no different than when I was working, had access to free Level 2 charging in the parking garage.

 

[Rocky_H]

Charging at 220V is also more efficient (less electricity loss) than 110V, regardless of amperage.

That's definitely false. I don't know why so many people misunderstand that and think that the voltage is this magical thing, which is all that matters. It's not. It doesn't matter any more than current. This efficiency factor is because of POWER, which is the rate of energy per time. And that depends equally on the voltage and amperage.

Let's say you have 120V on a 30A circuit, so feeding 24A. A TT-30 outlet at a campground is an example of that. That is 2,880 Watts.

So what about a 6-15 outlet, which is 240V feeding 12A? That is also 2,880 Watts. The car is going to convert that 2,880 W to put into the battery pack anyway, and the efficiency will be about identical.

And when you say regardless of amperage, that's not true. There are 5-50 outlets, which are 120V 50A. If you got 120V and 40A feed from that, you would be getting 4.8 kW from it, definitely faster and more efficient than the 240V 12A.

 

[boulder.dude]

That's definitely false. I don't know why so many people misunderstand that and think that the voltage is this magical thing, which is all that matters. It's not. It doesn't matter any more than current. This efficiency factor is because of POWER, which is the rate of energy per time. And that depends equally on the voltage and amperage.
And when you say regardless of amperage, that's not true. There are 5-50 outlets, which are 120V 50A. If you got 120V and 40A feed from that, you would be getting 4.8 kW from it, definitely faster and more efficient than the 240V 12A.

I’m going by this post (below) which indicates efficiency is higher at 240V for all amperages. (When I say efficiency I mean the % of power that doesn’t make it from the house into the car battery.)

Charging table - time to charge at 120/240V considering efficiency+

Tesla's official charging rates are estimates, but I think they make NEMA 5-15 charging seem really bad (3 miles/hour for a model 3?). I've plugged some data into a spreadsheet to calculate charging times for various volts and amps. volts amps (continuous) kW efficiency kW actual hours to...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Rocky_H]

I’m going by this post (below) which indicates efficiency is higher at 240V for all amperages.

Well, there are no examples in that table at all of a 120V source with higher power than the 240V sources, so that is not for "all amperages". They start at equal power, and then the 240V ones go higher, so of course they cannot show there that a high power low voltage source could be better efficiency, because there are no examples of it shown.

I am confused at where someone is making up some of those numbers. For the 2.88 kW examples I gave, they show both of those, but they show a thing called "kW actual", where they list them at different power levels. And then there is this quote after the table:
"the other values are guesses."

I prefer to go with math over guessing about whether 120 X 24 equals 240 X 12 or not. But yeah, voltage boost transformers are not ideal, so maybe starting from the higher voltage to go to 400V would be more efficient if the total power were equal to start with.

But there is a small factor I hadn't remembered to bring up earlier. Running higher current does have a little more heat from resistance in the wires. So there is a small difference there, where if you were running the same power level, there would be a little extra heat loss from the one running higher amps.

I'll grant that it's just rare to find real examples that could really disprove this stuff, because you just don't really find 50 or 60A circuits at 120V that would be much higher power and better efficiency than the really low amp 240V ones.

 

[zeryx]

I've been travel charging and supercharging exclusively, depending on your city it may be worth to get the chademo or after market CCS adapter to give you more flexibility. Theres a CCS DC fast charger 2 min from my house which is massively more convenient than the 30+ min drive to my nearest supercharger.
Most destinations we go to have charging, we use it and make some of our dine out / shopping decisions based on if there's charging, has taken us a little getting used to but now it's kind of fun!
Next time we move, charging infra will be a priority, but I got my Y in November and have never had an issue.

I live in NS, Canada FTR

 

[John in LB]

Best would be to maintain the battery between 50% and not more than 90%.

The statement above is not quite right.

Best to operate the battery between 20% and 80%.

Slightly not as good is to operate between 10% and 90%.

Finally, minimize charging to 100%, and never, ever, let your battery get to zero%...

Regarding zero% state: if you arrive at your destination with 10% or less, you need to start charging right away, while the battery is still warm. If you let it cool down (say overnight), it could end up at zero on its own.

If you are storing your car (say 1 month+), then plug car in, set charge setpoint at 50%... car will cycle between 48% and 51% on its own...

 

[jcanoe]

The statement above is not quite right.

Best to operate the battery between 20% and 80%.

Slightly not as good is to operate between 10% and 90%.

Finally, minimize charging to 100%, and never, ever, let your battery get to zero%...

Regarding zero% state: if you arrive at your destination with 10% or less, you need to start charging right away, while the battery is still warm. If you let it cool down (say overnight), it could end up at zero on its own.

If you are storing your car (say 1 month+), then plug car in, set charge setpoint at 50%... car will cycle between 48% and 51% on its own...

Then why does the Tesla app use brackets that indicate 50% to 90% as the daily charging limit?

 

[MG535]

Hi All, I have booked my Model Y and estimated delivery is in May 2022. I don’t have home charging available in my condo. So for initial period could be 10-12 months I might be using super chargers mostly. I average 12000 miles during that time so approximately 50 times of supercharging in an year. Do you think it will degrade the battery performance in long run. Service advisor says it’s totally fine but wanted to seek advice from experienced people.

Thanks

I had to do exclusively SC charging for a while and would never choose to do it on a permanent basis. It’s such a waste of time driving to/from and waiting. And I never had to wait to plug in. If I did, that extra wasted time

You mention 10-12 months but based on what? Buying a house and moving out of your condo? That’s extremely challenging right now and no one expects that to meaningfully improve any time soon. Unfortunately it may take longer than you think.

 

[Rocky_H]

Then why does the Tesla app use brackets that indicate 50% to 90% as the daily charging limit?

Because they are trying to sell cars.

I was just having to have a discussion like this in another thread.
Everything starts with initial project parameters. What is the intended function and purpose of this thing? Then you design toward that.

The intended purpose of the settings on the charging limit slider is something like, "Where should we recommend so that people will be attracted to buy our cars because they will have enough range for them to practically use every day, while still discouraging the worst cases that are most damaging to the battery?"

So for that design parameter, they would need to recommend mostly full to have enough range, but not all the way up.

However, if the purpose was for something entirely different:
"What is the best and most ideal way of treating a battery that will never be used so that it preserves the most capacity over a very long time?"

Then you would get a different recommendation on the slider and one that has very little in common with it being a usable car. There is plenty of data showing that low states of charge and sitting disconnected in cold temperatures is very good for the long term life of a battery. But you can't sell any cars to anyone if you tell them they should use it that way.