No offense, the current card/phone setup is utter *sugar*

[Runt8]

The Model 3 requires phone location access of “always” to unlock reliably. Otherwise, the car has no way to know whether you (and your phone) are near the car unless you are actively using the app.

Note: Edited for clarity.

Are we sure this is actually the case? I was under the impression that the phone key uses bluetooth only and determines distance based on round trip time, not the phones location services.

I had simultaneous failure to operate of both phone (car disappeared from app) and card (locked itself inside) within the first 6 hours of ownership.

Neither one of those things are failures of the phone key. It's very common for your car to disappear from the app after delivery (apparently the service center setup is temporary for some reason) - it should reappear automatically within a day or so. And the car has no way of knowing if the key card is in the car and therefore no way of preventing it from being locked in.

 

[N5329K]

Tesla isn't changing over to a fob because they want to. They are changing over to offering a fob because they realize they have to.
Robin

 

[sduck]

The first problems I had with my iphone X was after updating to iOS 12 the other day. After doing that upgrade, I had to take the phone out of my pocket and start up the screen (not unlock it or anything else, just light up the screen) to unlock the car. A hard reboot of the phone and it works normally again - from the pocket, no screen light up. Might be worth a try if you just got that new XS.

 

[ThosEM]

iPhone X. After I got over the fact that the phone disconnects when out of bluetooth range, I've had few problems that required taking out the card. I've had zero problems for so long, that I'm suspicious I was jinxing it with anxiety initially. It does feel stupid to be fiddling with the door when, say, it's raining! Anyhow, who really wants a key fob. Wouldn't it be better to get the phone working perfectly for everyone?

 

[GPinzone]

I'm using the Note 9 - it won't work half the time unless I fully remove it from my back pocket and stand there for a minute, staring at my phone like I'm not just waiting for my damn car to unlock.

Having said that, I'm more than open to the idea that the app/phone isn't optimally set up. I don't need the pictures, but can you provide me with any tips, much like the user above provided for iOS users? I'm linking that portion of the chat to my wife, whose iPhone 6 no longer open/locks the car when my phone is around.

Yes. I assume you have Oreo, but this should work on Pie, too...

How to Manage App Permissions on Android Oreo 8.0 - PCMobiTech

Follow the directions here by going to Settings, Apps & Notifications, choose the Tesla app, Permissions, and turn them ALL on. Also, click on Mobile data and turn on Allow background data usage as well as Allow app while Data saver on. Also make sure all the App Notification settings are enabled, too. You don't need to allow changes to system settings.

 

[rdlink]

Anyhow, who really wants a key fob. Wouldn't it be better to get the phone working perfectly for everyone?

That's the issue. You have multiple iterations and models of phones from literally dozens of manufacturers, coupled with a technology (bluetooth) that is still very immature. You'll never "get the phone working perfectly" because of the former, and BT is still buggy and inconsistent 5 generations in. A fob is absolutely nothing in my pocket compared to the reliability it would bring. Especially since I already have to carry keys.

 

[Linkeds2]

I have 2 iPhone 7+s and they work 100% of the time. But they didn’t when we first bought the car ( I want to say before 32.4). The car wouldn’t react to door handle presses 100% so I’d have to open the app and manually unlock the doors.

But now, it works perfectly everytime. The car doesn’t Auto Unlock as I walk up to it (which I don’t think is how it should work), but will unlock each time I pull on a door handle.

The only problem I have now is not being able to unlock the charge cable without first ‘waking’ the car up with a door handle press

 

[GPinzone]

One one Samsung or Android tip...

Settings, Battery, Unmonitored apps. Add the Tesla app. I don't have this set, but maybe you need to if you're having problems. Also make sure it's not in the Always sleeping apps list.

Also, are you using other kinds of apps like Greenify?

 

[outie]

I can totally imagine Tesla getting blamed when some new phone device doesn’t work with their car. It’s not just hardware..
But hardware, firmware, middleware, software. Some of these cross over but it’s an illustration on all the things that can screw up the vision.

In the IT space we have something called hardware compatibilitity lists.

If the iPhone XS And/OR iOS 12 build 1.146 is not on the HCL - tough *sugar*, you can call an Uber or walk home. Or stick with a validated iPhone 8 running iOS 11.

Obviously the SOL solution is not going to be acceptable to the consumer so that fob is going to have to fix the hubris the phone / keycard created.

Or Apple decides to get smart and buy a 25% stake in Tesla. Replace the Tesla pad with an iPad Pro, bring an App Store and let the watch remote view the 9 cameras or whatever there is on the Model 3.

I bet that watch would be a sweet key. Have a designated dock to charge while driving.

I have an XS Max as well but my 3 is being worked on so no idea how that will function.

The iPhone X was silly. Open car no problem. Couldn’t drive though unless phone was unlocked. *rage*

It's *sugar* on the XS Max. I've only owned the car for 3 days and it only worked 50% of the time, usually worse when the car has been idled for a while (esp in morning). Or I get off the car to get some stuff, back to the car and the *sugar* won't let me drive and told me to place keycard in the cupholder. I'm like what?

For people with phones working flawlessly, they can keep that method. For those having issues I am glad they are getting FOB on request.

 

[diamond.g]

That's the issue. You have multiple iterations and models of phones from literally dozens of manufacturers, coupled with a technology (bluetooth) that is still very immature. You'll never "get the phone working perfectly" because of the former, and BT is still buggy and inconsistent 5 generations in. A fob is absolutely nothing in my pocket compared to the reliability it would bring. Especially since I already have to carry keys.

And here we are about to get a fob based on that buggy and inconsistent technology.

This is why I am a part of the temper folks expectations brigade. People are hating on BT thinking the fob is going to solve all the issues, when the fob is BT based itself.

 

[Eno Deb]

The Model 3 requires phone location access of “always” to unlock reliably. Otherwise, the car has no way to know whether you (and your phone) are near the car unless you are actively using the app.

This is not accurate. I have set location access for the Tesla app to "while using" on my iPhone 8 and unlocking the car works almost 100% of the time. I have also disabled background app refresh, so that isn't necessary either.

 

[WileyTheMan]

Interesting note for me: My phone key was pretty unreliable (and frustrating) since I got it. I had about a 60% chance of success on average. I just upgraded from a iPhone 6 Plus to an iPhone XS and I'll be damned if its been (so far) flawless. Dare I say this feature works better with more modern phones?

 

[Canikony]

That's the issue. You have multiple iterations and models of phones from literally dozens of manufacturers, coupled with a technology (bluetooth) that is still very immature. You'll never "get the phone working perfectly" because of the former, and BT is still buggy and inconsistent 5 generations in. A fob is absolutely nothing in my pocket compared to the reliability it would bring. Especially since I already have to carry keys.

Not to mention that while software updates can make things better, they can also make things worse.

 

[rdlink]

And here we are about to get a fob based on that buggy and inconsistent technology.

This is why I am a part of the temper folks expectations brigade. People are hating on BT thinking the fob is going to solve all the issues, when the fob is BT based itself.

I understand your position, and I am a little nervous about that, also.

But here's the deal. A fob, even a BLE fob is a dedicated piece of hardware with dedicated firmware that only has one function. This eliminates the tons and tons of variables that BT on phones brings into the mix. It's a Windows vs Mac, or iPhone vs Android analogy. The more closed the entire ecosystem the better chance of it being consistent and successful.

 

[MXWing]

Not to mention that while software updates can make things better, they can also make things worse.

Not over the long run however.

3 steps forward 1 step back is still 2 steps forward.

 

[N5329K]

And here we are about to get a fob based on that buggy and inconsistent technology.

This is why I am a part of the temper folks expectations brigade. People are hating on BT thinking the fob is going to solve all the issues, when the fob is BT based itself.

But it's not remotely as software intensive, or dependent. That means it's also way less buggy, and way more stable.
All the things you want from a simple key.
Robin

 

[Twiglett]

As this is YAPAKT (Yet Another Phone As Key Thread) I reckon the common thread is people.
Therefore I conclude that without evidence to prove it that it must be a Layer 8 issue

 

[crackers8199]

And here we are about to get a fob based on that buggy and inconsistent technology.

This is why I am a part of the temper folks expectations brigade. People are hating on BT thinking the fob is going to solve all the issues, when the fob is BT based itself.

the fobs for the S and X are not inconsistent and buggy. they work fine, AFAIK. this is likely because tesla controls both ends of the tech.

that will NEVER happen with phone as key. that's the point.

 

[TeeEmCee]

This is not accurate. I have set location access for the Tesla app to "while using" on my iPhone 8 and unlocking the car works almost 100% of the time. I have also disabled background app refresh, so that isn't necessary either.

It was pure speculation on my part that it does location validation but your findings seem to invalidate that. It sounded like a decent "extra" verification to implement, that is if you disregard the horrendous privacy implications and the expectation of reliability in less-than-great cellular coverage areas.

To me, today's Silicon Valley culture seems to have veered significantly toward not testing all possible operating conditions and blaming users instead (e.g. "you're holding it wrong") when they venture outside of the few tested use cases. The "need tracking on at all times" is exactly what I'd expect to see coming out of a lot of the engineering talent in the Valley. I've seen this a million times there and have always joked that the aerospace equivalent would be something like "dear passengers, under certain conditions, a limited number of passengers will experience plane crashes; we recommend that crashed aircraft be rebooted periodically for optimum operation".

 

[lairdb]

[...]
I had granted the app the necessary privileges, nonetheless with location access when using as opposed to always.
This got me thinking, if it does any location validation in order to unlock (I thought Tesla said this was bluetooth-based) then it might explain the failures. [...]

The Model 3 requires phone location access of “always” to unlock reliably. Otherwise, the car has no way to know whether you (and your phone) are near the car unless you are actively using the app.

Are we sure this is actually the case? I was under the impression that the phone key uses bluetooth only and determines distance based on round trip time, not the phones location services.

Neither one of those things are failures of the phone key. It's very common for your car to disappear from the app after delivery (apparently the service center setup is temporary for some reason) - it should reappear automatically within a day or so. And the car has no way of knowing if the key card is in the car and therefore no way of preventing it from being locked in.

Couple notes -- no inside info, but some knowledge in the field from which to speculate.

Location Services isn't always about location. With Apple's agressive app state management, Location Services wakeups are one of the very few ways to get an app to rouse from the Suspended state. Dropbox and OneDrive for iOS are examples of apps that have no real use for location, but use Location Services Always On to stay awake in the background and perform non-location-related duties. IOW, the phone key could be using Bluetooth proximity and time-of-flight, and not location at all, but still need Location Services to occasionally bump the app out of Suspended. (Failure of this wakeup hack could explain the occasional failure to unlock from folks that have been otherwise successful.)

Tesla unlock is known to be a moderately complex thing -- it's not just device ID sensed or connecting; it's at least a PKI exchange, and possibly an active challenge/response. Given that, it might follow that the app needs to be awake to unlock the car.