No offense, the current card/phone setup is utter *sugar*

[TeeEmCee]

Not over the long run however.

3 steps forward 1 step back is still 2 steps forward.

Certain users like the one who died crashing into the median because of software behavior may not care so much about the long term.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I just wish Tesla would create an Apple Watch app so I could use BLE on my watch to unlock my car like I do my Mac.

 

[Runt8]

Couple notes -- no inside info, but some knowledge in the field from which to speculate.

Location Services isn't always about location. With Apple's agressive app state management, Location Services wakeups are one of the very few ways to get an app to rouse from the Suspended state. Dropbox and OneDrive for iOS are examples of apps that have no real use for location, but use Location Services Always On to stay awake in the background and perform non-location-related duties. IOW, the phone key could be using Bluetooth proximity and time-of-flight, and not location at all, but still need Location Services to occasionally bump the app out of Suspended. (Failure of this wakeup hack could explain the occasional failure to unlock from folks that have been otherwise successful.)

Tesla unlock is known to be a moderately complex thing -- it's not just device ID sensed or connecting; it's at least a PKI exchange, and possibly an active challenge/response. Given that, it might follow that the app needs to be awake to unlock the car.

Apps can also be woken up when a new bluetooth connection is made. This seems far more likely the case given that cars are often parked in locations where there are no GPS or cellular signals (ie, parking garages).

 

[lairdb]

Apps can also be woken up when a new bluetooth connection is made. This seems far more likely the case given that cars are often parked in locations where there are no GPS or cellular signals (ie, parking garages).

App wakeup (other than Apple's own apps) on Bluetooth connection is a dark art, and IIRC limited to Bluetooth devices certified through MFA. Location Services wakeups are simpler, and come from all kinds of sources, including GPS, wifi environment changes, etc. Location Services is available on iOS devices that don't even have GPS hardware.

(Believe me, one of my cherished app requests is for Waze to launch to Background state upon connection to a user-chosen Bluetooth device. Not do-able within Apple rules.)

 

[Linkeds2]

the fobs for the S and X are not inconsistent and buggy. they work fine, AFAIK. this is likely because tesla controls both ends of the tech.

that will NEVER happen with phone as key. that's the point.

If the leak on the keyfob is true:

The model 3 keyfob still uses the Bluetooth protocol to communicate with the car. It talks to the same antenna and module on the model 3 that a cellphone’s Bluetooth does.

S and X key fobs do not use Bluetooth. They use more conventional RF signals that keys use.

The only thing the keyfob does is just a 2nd Bluetooth source. It may behave differently however with the signal it emits

 

[Runt8]

App wakeup (other than Apple's own apps) on Bluetooth connection is a dark art, and IIRC limited to Bluetooth devices certified through MFA. Location Services wakeups are simpler, and come from all kinds of sources, including GPS, wifi environment changes, etc. Location Services is available on iOS devices that don't even have GPS hardware.

(Believe me, one of my cherished app requests is for Waze to launch to Background state upon connection to a user-chosen Bluetooth device. Not do-able within Apple rules.)

My reading of the Core Bluetooth Programming Guide leads me to think otherwise (for example, there's no mention of MFI and lots of information on background execution modes with bluetooth), but since I don't have any direct experience and this is well off topic I'll just leave it at that.

If the leak on the keyfob is true:

The model 3 keyfob still uses the Bluetooth protocol to communicate with the car. It talks to the same antenna and module on the model 3 that a cellphone’s Bluetooth does.

S and X key fobs do not use Bluetooth. They use more conventional RF signals that keys use.

The only thing the keyfob does is just a 2nd Bluetooth source. It may behave differently however with the signal it emits

Model S switched to Bluetooth fobs a while ago, and X has always used them.

 

[rachelhikes]

The Model 3 requires phone location access of “always” to unlock reliably.

This.

The problem is that memory management in your phone is always looking to free up memory. One of its main strategies is to silently shut down applications that aren’t active. If you don’t have this set, the phone can decide that the Tesla app isn’t active, and shut it down. If the app is shut down, it can’t unlock the car.

The “always on” location setting makes the app look active, and makes it much less likely that the phone will shut it down.

Manually starting the Tesla app SHOULD (barring some bug) let the app unlock your car, so if automatic phone unlock doesn’t work, try to manually start the app.

 

[drawfour]

Yes. From the outside, I reached inside the car to open the door and the alarm was Really Loud!

Did you turn it on in one of those screens?

My alarm was NOT enabled when I got it from the service center. I found it when going through to do my initial configuration.

 

[dendenyc]

I've not had any reliability issues with my iphone X. Every once in a while I'll need to actually pull it out my pocket before the car would unlock but not a big deal. My new iPhone XS arrives tomorrow so I'll see if its a compatibility issue. I hope not.

 

[drawfour]

S and X key fobs do not use Bluetooth. They use more conventional RF signals that keys use.

Model S has used BLE since 2016, and the Model X has always used BLE.

 

[Tam]

My alarm was NOT enabled when I got it from the service center. I found it when going through to do my initial configuration.

I am glad that you have now finally found it.

Yes, it's like self-learning when buying a Tesla.

 

[thx1139]

My LG G6 has worked 100% fine. My wifes Moto G Plus has been spotty.

 

[drawfour]

I am glad that you have now finally found it.

Yes, it's like self-learning when buying a Tesla.

Yeah, some of the options should have been pre-set to on. Something like alarm, for sure. Pretty ridiculous that it was not enabled. But it just required going through each screen, and very simple to enable.

 

[MXWing]

Certain users like the one who died crashing into the median because of software behavior may not care so much about the long term.

For every Walter, theres a million harry, dick and janes who die from other vehicles that would have lived had they been in a Model X.

Jamboree and Walnut in Irvine shut down for hours due to Mercedes SUV rollover. Wish they had a MX

 

[Runt8]

This.

The problem is that memory management in your phone is always looking to free up memory. One of its main strategies is to silently shut down applications that aren’t active. If you don’t have this set, the phone can decide that the Tesla app isn’t active, and shut it down. If the app is shut down, it can’t unlock the car.

The “always on” location setting makes the app look active, and makes it much less likely that the phone will shut it down.

Manually starting the Tesla app SHOULD (barring some bug) let the app unlock your car, so if automatic phone unlock doesn’t work, try to manually start the app.

This is why we still have people "force-quitting" all their apps because they think it helps with battery life - someone posts something with anecdotal evidence at best and the internet runs with it until it becomes common knowledge.

No one outside of Tesla knows if the Tesla app uses location services in an effort to improve the phone key functionality. It's possible that it has that effect unintentionaly but there has been just as much anecdotal evidence to show it's not needed as there is that shows it helps. There are privacy concerns with giving apps access to location services when they are not being used.

 

[drawfour]

For every Walter, theres a million harry, dick and janes who die from other vehicles that would have lived had they been in a Model X.

Jamboree and Walnut in Irvine shut down for hours due to Mercedes SUV rollover. Wish they had a MX

Just like there are occasionally crashes where not wearing a seatbelt saved their life by being thrown free instead of getting trapped and burned to death. That still doesn't mean that not wearing a seatbelt is a good idea.

 

[lairdb]

My reading of the Core Bluetooth Programming Guide leads me to think otherwise (for example, there's no mention of MFI and lots of information on background execution modes with bluetooth), but since I don't have any direct experience and this is well off topic I'll just leave it at that.

IIRC, the key difference is that LocationManager can wake all they way from Terminated, not just Suspended.

Agreed.

 

[MXWing]

Just like there are occasionally crashes where not wearing a seatbelt saved their life by being thrown free instead of getting trapped and burned to death. That still doesn't mean that not wearing a seatbelt is a good idea.

If you followed the story closely, you will find out Walter "tested" the same intersection and saw the same issues over half a dozen times before it finally "got him".

If the driver took responsibility for car control, because ya know - it's his responsibility - there would have been no issue.

 

[drawfour]

If you followed the story closely, you will find out Walter "tested" the same intersection and saw the same issues over half a dozen times before it finally "got him".

If the driver took responsibility for car control, because ya know - it's his responsibility - there would have been no issue.

His wife even mentioned that that same off-ramp area always had problems, and filed suit anyway. I think she basically damned their case right there (not that she had a case). It's easy to become distracted and complacent, but this is L2 and it's still the driver's responsibility to be alert and ready to take over at any time.

 

[diamond.g]

Model S has used BLE since 2016, and the Model X has always used BLE.

This would indicate that signal amplification theft is a problem with all Tesla’s then if newer Models S’s are still being stolen.

Looking at the S Owners manual doesn’t indicate that the fob is BT like the X manual does (and the 3). It was last updated Aug 10.