Tesla Model S, X has no plans to use 2170 battery cells, says Musk
This seems to go against things that they've said previously. Interesting.
This seems to go against things that they've said previously. Interesting.
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Reciprocity
Active Member
It can only mean that the issue is supply. Given the ramp for Model 3 and TE solutions. It would mean they need every single cell they can make, even if they are 18650 from Japan/China. If they projected a glut, they would more then likely want to leverage that huge new factory as much as possible, this its kind of good news that they are not. I means demand is outpacing supply by a very good amount, because they could save a bundle on switching.. About $500M/Year at 100k cars.
I agree. This is interesting in a couple of ways:
1. It may be another way to inoculate the S/X from M3 inflicted Osborne disease. They don't want people holding off waiting for a new, bigger better battery.
2. If the above is true, they would also be inclined to say that they've NOT got an interior upgrade in the offing and they're not including CCS charging - both of which have been widely circulated public rumors that Tesla is highly aware of. There are certainly people holding off for those reasons (me for example), and they are definitely aware of that too.
But they haven't made such a statement. Sometimes what they DON'T say is as informative as what they DO say.
1. It may be another way to inoculate the S/X from M3 inflicted Osborne disease. They don't want people holding off waiting for a new, bigger better battery.
2. If the above is true, they would also be inclined to say that they've NOT got an interior upgrade in the offing and they're not including CCS charging - both of which have been widely circulated public rumors that Tesla is highly aware of. There are certainly people holding off for those reasons (me for example), and they are definitely aware of that too.
But they haven't made such a statement. Sometimes what they DON'T say is as informative as what they DO say.
TexasTeslaRacing
Member
This makes me feel a bit better about our purchase this month. I was worried they would announce the new cells in July. We couldn't pass up our inventory MX because the discount was so high.
Saw the tweet, and it definitely would be a factor for me not waiting for 2018! Now, only waiting for what's after July!
Very strange that Elon stated that the change-over to 2170 for S/X would 'around the end of the year' or whatever the language was only a few months ago... May have just been a more-precise of production and assembly (and, as @sandpiper says, getting people to click on the Order button!).
Very strange that Elon stated that the change-over to 2170 for S/X would 'around the end of the year' or whatever the language was only a few months ago... May have just been a more-precise of production and assembly (and, as @sandpiper says, getting people to click on the Order button!).
Pre-announcing? And Tesla has stated that they don't intent to offer batteries over 100kwh. But I don't believe them in that respect.
Hmm...did Elon actually state that or was it a case of wishful thinking going from rumor to "truth"?
BluestarE3
Active Member
If the "hang on to your hats" rumor is to be believed and Model 3 ramp-up will be faster than previously assumed and the Gigafactory isn't at full capacity yet, it's not surprising if there won't be enough 2170 cells for the existing models until a later date. "No plans" doesn't mean never. The way I interpreted that tweet is that he's telling people interested in buying an S or X in the near-term not to hold off their purchases based on speculation there may be a cell switchover soon.
Saw the tweet, and it definitely would be a factor for me not waiting for 2018! Now, only waiting for what's after July!
Very strange that Elon stated that the change-over to 2170 for S/X would 'around the end of the year' or whatever the language was only a few months ago... May have just been a more-precise of production and assembly (and, as @sandpiper says, getting people to click on the Order button!).
Be cautious... Its the MO for them to keep current sales rolling and then bam they will release them. I have heard it all before... Unlimited super charging ends... 12/31... Oops.. Super Charging ends 3/31... Oops Free Super Charging is back.... He will say anything to keep sales going and when they really slow.. Boom new 130k battery.
I agree. And that makes me MORE suspicious about the interior. "No plans" is... lets say a bit deceptive. They clearly plan to do it, because to do otherwise would make no sense. The 2170 will be cheaper per kwh. But they likely have not have firmed up timing and are waiting to see when enough 2170 cell capacity is available to make it happen.
But... the door is also wide open to say "no near term plans for new interior". And there is good reason to say it if it's true; short of a price cut, Tesla seems pulling out the stops to keep S sales going. But they're not saying it. Hmmm...
And also no mention of CCS. Hmmm...
I hear ya... no battery change... no pack over 100. Where do I sign up for the TUP? That's the Tesla Upgrade Program, like the IUP, the iPhone Upgrade Program, where you are guaranteed the new iPhone every year.I agree. And that makes me MORE suspicious about the interior. "No plans" is... lets say a bit deceptive. They clearly plan to do it, because to do otherwise would make no sense. The 2170 will be cheaper per kwh. But they likely have not have firmed up timing and are waiting to see when enough 2170 cell capacity is available to make it happen.
But... the door is also wide open to say "no near term plans for new interior". And there is good reason to say it if it's true; short of a price cut, Tesla seems pulling out the stops to keep S sales going. But they're not saying it. Hmmm...
He said it, I believe, in the last earnings call... they do sorta run together, but I'm pretty sure that's where it was. Let me check the transcript (for what that's worth...).
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Right, this was the stuff that was in that 'secret' call.... but it could all come from that one source with the blame placed on the garbled quote. Who knows...
Report: Tesla To Transition To 2170 Cell In Model S & X By End Of Year
It makes sense that Tesla will not invest the resources needed to engineer and build 2170 battery packs for the S/X lines - at least not for now - for a variety of reasons.
However... An interesting side effect of this announcement...
What about Supercharger V3 support?
It seems highly unlikely Tesla would introduce ultrafast charging for the Model 3 - without introducing it in their more expensive Model S and X vehicles.
If a battery pack change was needed to support SCV3 - then it could have made a lot of sense to develop a new 2170 battery pack for the S/X.
If the S & X won't be getting new battery packs - could that mean the current battery packs can accommodate the faster charging???
However... An interesting side effect of this announcement...
What about Supercharger V3 support?
It seems highly unlikely Tesla would introduce ultrafast charging for the Model 3 - without introducing it in their more expensive Model S and X vehicles.
If a battery pack change was needed to support SCV3 - then it could have made a lot of sense to develop a new 2170 battery pack for the S/X.
If the S & X won't be getting new battery packs - could that mean the current battery packs can accommodate the faster charging???
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Tesla has a contract for 16850 cells from Panasonic until 2018. They have to wait for that contract to expire or have to pay for cells they won't use (not going to happen anytime soon).
Elon isn't going to try and explain that in the 50 or so characters he had left in that tweet.
So just take it that 16850 will be used in S/X until the old Panasonic contract is satisfied in 2018. After that at some point they may switch S/X to 2170 but that is more than a year away and due to the Osbourne effect and general internet sugar storms he isn't going to say wait for a couple of years and we'll change it over.
jeffro01
Active Member
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
There was a rumor started that the new cells had the ability to charge at a much faster rate than the 16850's.
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