smorgasbord
Active Member
The real bad part is that the journalist had to be warned.
Model S is a great breakthrough, but there's lots more to do and overcome before Americans, even rich ones, take to EVs in droves.
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NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway
- Thread starter Jeeps17
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The real bad part is that the journalist had to be warned.
Model S is a great breakthrough, but there's lots more to do and overcome before Americans, even rich ones, take to EVs in droves.
The following post should almost be required reading for anyone considering this car for driving longer distances (150+ miles) and/or in colder climates.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...some-numbers-on-the-factors-that-affect-range
The bottom line is that Tesla's battery technology is still in its infancy, and until you are well acclimated to real-world range, these things will happen.
That said, if Tesla's in this for the long term and expects to be a serious player, then it needs to ramp up its Supercharger network NOW, particularly in densely populated areas like where this journalist traveled -- between DC and Boston. They need to add a Supercharger on the NJ Turnpike soon -- really soon. If not, all the halo publicity could erode faster than this guy's charge in 10 degree temperatures!
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...some-numbers-on-the-factors-that-affect-range
The bottom line is that Tesla's battery technology is still in its infancy, and until you are well acclimated to real-world range, these things will happen.
That said, if Tesla's in this for the long term and expects to be a serious player, then it needs to ramp up its Supercharger network NOW, particularly in densely populated areas like where this journalist traveled -- between DC and Boston. They need to add a Supercharger on the NJ Turnpike soon -- really soon. If not, all the halo publicity could erode faster than this guy's charge in 10 degree temperatures!
kevincwelch
Active Member
There's no reason to bash this author. The article was straight forward and executed with little drama in my opinion. Tesla did let him down.
This article bites Tesla in the rear and it's probably deserved.
Tesla failed to do real winter weather testing and their online range calculators are misleading for cold temperatures.
My hope is that few will read this NYT article and that Tesla is working on being more transparent and somehow improving these problems.
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This article bites Tesla in the rear and it's probably deserved.
Tesla failed to do real winter weather testing and their online range calculators are misleading for cold temperatures.
My hope is that few will read this NYT article and that Tesla is working on being more transparent and somehow improving these problems.
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sp4rk
Banned
I think the person who told him to turn off cruise control, meant climate control! Or did he mishear / misunderstand?
Let's call a spade a spade... he didn't have 1 mile he had 90.
I was quoting the post above mine.
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It's the NYT. Heck - I read it over here and it'll be all over twitter etc. Wait until the next news section on Top Gear...
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I wonder why he didn't plug in overnight. I wonder where he stayed in Groton. This is as much a call for there to be more charging options at hotels as it is for Tesla to prep people about cold weather driving, range mode driving, etc.
kevincwelch
Active Member
Agreed.
But Tesla should have prepared him more. You can't be a neophyte in anything and expect to execute expertly without the right coach.
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Krugerrand
Meow
That's out of context. It was 72% of a partial charge - as in a 30% charge. If he'd had 180 miles left, the 65 miles lost to cold weather becomes only 36% and so on.
Here's the deal; there are certain assumptions an intelligent person can make about batteries and cold weather. Therefore, it's equally intelligent to take the steps required to prevent such an occurrence from happening.
It's not a valid excuse to say 'it's not always possible to plug in'. It's an ELECTRIC car, make it possible or go back to driving your ICE. It's called planning ahead. It's called having a contingency plan. It's called being proactive. It's called common sense. If those things are not within your capacity, then I say again, go back to driving your ICE.
You have to make allowances for new technology and accept they aren't going to be perfect. You have to be willing to change. Adapt. Tesla is giving free long distance charging and people are complaining about it because they're not deploying it fast enough, or in the locations individuals want. Really? Wow, just wow.
carrerascott
FUEL FTR
I think right now reviewers (and buyers, and investors) need to understand that this market is still for car buffs and tech buffs and early adopters. Most people won't stand for not being able to just fill up on any corner. I hope Tesla really pushes the Supercharger installations all over the US. I'd hope they approach gas stations or Sheetz-like places and try to put Supercharger stations there -- it would bring those businesses more revenue (or at least not lost revenue) from food and drink sales. Would be great if Tesla made a deal with a WaWa or Sheetz (not sure if they are on the west coast) to put Supercharging stations at all of their locations.
If the first reviewers of the iPod touch said it's neat but there are no useful apps out there, they'd be missing the whole point. Now there are so many apps the argument is moot. I'm hope there are so many charging stations at least on major roads, that the "where can I charge?" questions becomes moot sooner than later.
If the first reviewers of the iPod touch said it's neat but there are no useful apps out there, they'd be missing the whole point. Now there are so many apps the argument is moot. I'm hope there are so many charging stations at least on major roads, that the "where can I charge?" questions becomes moot sooner than later.
Krugerrand
Meow
You're absolutely right. I just question why that even has to be said. How much more obvious does it have to be to people?
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I also think the article was fair.
People who don't follow EVs as closely as most of us here do won't know about the present limitations, like range reduction in cold weather. Far from being a disaster, I think this article is valuable feedback on what Tesla needs to do in the next few years to create mass-market demand: better cold-weather battery performance, lower "standby/parked/vampire" power consumption, and closer Supercharger placement.
Even after reading this "worst case" scenario, I would still purchase the Model S if I could afford it.
People who don't follow EVs as closely as most of us here do won't know about the present limitations, like range reduction in cold weather. Far from being a disaster, I think this article is valuable feedback on what Tesla needs to do in the next few years to create mass-market demand: better cold-weather battery performance, lower "standby/parked/vampire" power consumption, and closer Supercharger placement.
Even after reading this "worst case" scenario, I would still purchase the Model S if I could afford it.
My reply:
John - I assume you did the research, or perhaps someone at Tesla told you, that when you go for an extended trip you do a max charge - that would have given you 265+ miles of rated range. When you go on a road trip in your gas car do you put 12 gallons in a 14 gallon tank?
If I go somewhere in my gas car, spend $8 to get 2 gallons and 60 miles of range, but needed 3 gallons to go 90 miles and get there, and run out of gas, shame on me. Plug in overnight, always. It's EASY.
Here's the equivalent - you get gas when you need to. You plug in every night when you get to your destination. There are more outlets in America than gas pumps - probably at least 1 million times more. Every outlet in America is a refilling station. Come on!
Why didn't you point out the basics that you failed on? If you ran out of gas would you blame Ford for not telling you the car's MPG, or Exxon for not having a station when you needed it?
Driving an electric car is NOT less convenient, it just asks you to think differently. Takes effort, just like a gas car requires effort. If you start simple-mindedly with the gas paradigm as the baseline, you have made a basic mistake. Would get on a bike and write a negative article because you couldn't make it go 65 MPH? Please make the effort next time and acknowledge when you don't.
John - I assume you did the research, or perhaps someone at Tesla told you, that when you go for an extended trip you do a max charge - that would have given you 265+ miles of rated range. When you go on a road trip in your gas car do you put 12 gallons in a 14 gallon tank?
If I go somewhere in my gas car, spend $8 to get 2 gallons and 60 miles of range, but needed 3 gallons to go 90 miles and get there, and run out of gas, shame on me. Plug in overnight, always. It's EASY.
Here's the equivalent - you get gas when you need to. You plug in every night when you get to your destination. There are more outlets in America than gas pumps - probably at least 1 million times more. Every outlet in America is a refilling station. Come on!
Why didn't you point out the basics that you failed on? If you ran out of gas would you blame Ford for not telling you the car's MPG, or Exxon for not having a station when you needed it?
Driving an electric car is NOT less convenient, it just asks you to think differently. Takes effort, just like a gas car requires effort. If you start simple-mindedly with the gas paradigm as the baseline, you have made a basic mistake. Would get on a bike and write a negative article because you couldn't make it go 65 MPH? Please make the effort next time and acknowledge when you don't.
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If I was Tesla I'd add one in Riverside, NJ or New Brunswick nj.
Riverside is about 50 miles, New Brunswick is about 110 miles. Metuchen or north jersey may be a little too far. Make in central jersey. Burlington/mercer/middlesex counties would be great. That's dead center in the state.
A 65 mile loss for just being parked is unacceptable. I'm not going to be an apologist and I think your 'plan ahead or drive an ICE' argument is totally wide of the mark. It's taken many owners here by surprise and I've not seen anything this bad with other EVs (or EREVs for that matter) just for being unplugged overnight in the cold.
The guy thought he'd charged by more than enough for supercharger > hotel > back to supercharger. Then the technology let him down. I'd have done the same.
If you are willing to accept that then you are condeming EVs to a niche.
Tesla has an issue here that it needs to sort fast.
Indeed!
The pitfalls of writing a post quickly whilst being swarmed by hungry kids clamouring for supper...
I did the most best I could, really! :biggrin:
I can always use the 'english is my second language' angle if backed into a corner :wink:
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
It'd be curious to know what caused the 65 mile loss. Was it pack heating, or did the pack actually cool down too much. Didn't the Roadster owners manual have something in it about not plugging in when at such temperatures being something extra bad? I think it's reasonable in very hot or very cold for the pack to try and maintain temperature because that maximizes its life. I'm also curious why he didn't complain about the lack of charging options where he ate or stayed the night. In Canada and parts of the US they have to have block heaters in their cars and the businesses where you park will have outlets to plug in or your ICE will get too cold and not start. It seems to me that he got stuck in a similar situation. Ask someone in Calgary what happens if you park your car overnight outside without plugging in in the winter. Answer, you're stuck. If there'd been a J1772 (or even a wall outlet) at where he stayed, this would have been a much different story.
A few thoughts as I think about this article. For mass market adoption, you have to appeal to the lowest denominator. I doubt the majority is going to easily accept a change if it is considered making something that is currently easy/accepted, more complicated. I think no matter what, battery range and charge time are the two issues that will ultimately win or lose the battle. Convenience sells. The fact the S is great looking, handles well and works pretty much as advertised is the other side of the story and got us this far. There are going to be negative reviews, because there are certain limitations.
Slightly off topic but still relevant, how many people who own a model s or have one incoming have another car (ice)? And does having another car say something about the weaknesses of the model s at the moment? How many people who do have another car besides the S would have picked the S if they were allowed only one car. I know there are people whose only car is the S. The point I'm trying to make is about perception and limitations.
Slightly off topic but still relevant, how many people who own a model s or have one incoming have another car (ice)? And does having another car say something about the weaknesses of the model s at the moment? How many people who do have another car besides the S would have picked the S if they were allowed only one car. I know there are people whose only car is the S. The point I'm trying to make is about perception and limitations.
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Krugerrand
Meow
That's a given. But doesn't everybody do due diligence beforehand? We're adults, not 5 year olds. If you've never operated a chainsaw before, do you not read the manual first? Get some pointers about how to prevent sawing a limb off? If you're going to drive a new fandangled electric vehicle, in the middle of the winter, on a long range trip, I'm all over the user's manual, and then I'm charging that puppy to 100% every chance I get and I'm plugging it in at night. But then I've never run out of gas either.
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