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NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway
- Thread starter Jeeps17
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Elon is just being Elon with his aggressive response, but he can't win this battle and could well lose the war. NYT offered mostly positive coverage of Tesla until now, and this article is no hatchet job. Getting in a feud with them over this is a terrible idea. Its like Apple telling David Pogue to go f**k himself.
Many people here could have made that trip just fine, but in point of fact the car told him he had enough charge to make it and he believed it. If the range predictions on the screen can't be trusted, then what are they for? Plus, it is a reasonable assumption for a newcomer to expect that after parking a car and turning it off, it will be the same as you left it when you return, not down 65 miles. Tesla is a California company and they still have some learning to do about cold weather. This will help.
Many people here could have made that trip just fine, but in point of fact the car told him he had enough charge to make it and he believed it. If the range predictions on the screen can't be trusted, then what are they for? Plus, it is a reasonable assumption for a newcomer to expect that after parking a car and turning it off, it will be the same as you left it when you return, not down 65 miles. Tesla is a California company and they still have some learning to do about cold weather. This will help.
+1000 !!! - actually, showing both would be best, as we would need to see 'ESTIMATED' mileage remaning
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I would take Elon to be a smart man, and not to be so aggressive unless he has some cause to be - so I am assuming there is some data about that drive that he knows about that has not yet been published.
If the driver was speeding excessively than that is reason enough for this to be a flawed test. Please remember ICE cars with Fuel gauges are very vague, so speeding would definitely reduce mileage, but it would not be noticed as much - but the Model S tells you precisely how much mileage is remaining, and that i think is the problem..
The car actually didn't tell him he had enough range to make it. He stopped charging after an hour with 32 miles of range and tried to make a 65 mile trip counting on the pack warming up (which it already was) and magically gaining an additional 40 miles or so.
Seegem
Member
Alexander
P# 8,878
We need to get a group of Model S owners together and drive the same road trip as the NYT's reporter (minus the detour/short charging). I've heard of owners taking a charge penalty in cold weather, but this was the first real horror story I've read.
I couldn't help but wonder why I was reading it in the NYT's, and not right here on our forums. With all the owners who've racked up thousands of miles in cold weather, why is it that this reporter ends up being the first one to have this problem.
Given the lack of horror stories, my initial reaction was that the car was a lemon and this was nothing more then an isolated incident. I trusted that Tesla would look at the logs, identify the problem, and produce a fix. I didn't think the problem would of been the driver!
I think with all the positive news on the Model S, reporters are getting desperate to find SOMETHING wrong with the car so they can create buzz. And I have to admit, even I'm getting board with reading the same positive article over and over again. It was nice to read something different, even if it was a sham.
I couldn't help but wonder why I was reading it in the NYT's, and not right here on our forums. With all the owners who've racked up thousands of miles in cold weather, why is it that this reporter ends up being the first one to have this problem.
Given the lack of horror stories, my initial reaction was that the car was a lemon and this was nothing more then an isolated incident. I trusted that Tesla would look at the logs, identify the problem, and produce a fix. I didn't think the problem would of been the driver!
I think with all the positive news on the Model S, reporters are getting desperate to find SOMETHING wrong with the car so they can create buzz. And I have to admit, even I'm getting board with reading the same positive article over and over again. It was nice to read something different, even if it was a sham.
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Well, the problem is "at what point did the car tell him he could make it". He thought he was good to go at the end of the first day, but made some bad choices on how to deal with the 65 mile drop in range that occurred overnight.
A Model S will deliver a flawless in-town experience, but highway travel requires some know-how that can only be gained with experience, and some patience as well. Despite the great progress they have made in increasing EV range, highway travel is still not for the casual user.
Alexander
P# 8,878
Its also not something everyone does, even in an ICE car. I can think of 4 people I know that have never, and probably will never, travel long distances in a car (they prefer trains, and airplanes).
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SO agree! An innovative company that initiates a paradigm shift by introducing the best car in the world would have:
a. spend time to educate the reporter of the needs of the car and the particularities of EV driving - they are few but important fo the average ICE drive that has 0 experience with EVs
b. communicate the real world ratings - who drives 55 in a 65mph highway
c. if temp is under freezing, have a large screen message, informing the driver that in "next X hours you might lose up to X miles due to weather conditions"
d. focus on addressing the mileage drop in cold weather - seem to be coming more and more in this forum
e. do not open a war with a major respectful media but gracefully offer for 2 more NYT reporters accompanied with Tesla DS to do exactly the same trip and force the NY times to report results - fix the experience and make NY the biggest supporter - your product deserves that!
f. cut down on the tweets - for crying out loud. As a shareholder and owner I am concerned with the silly PR they create
The reaction sounds an amateur move from Tesla and Elon himself. Sounds like bullying and arrogance - Tesla and model S is all about grace/change/different way of thinking. Let's react like that in the future...
BTW, picking the beauty in 2 hours, an no, I am not going to do the NYT reporter's trip, I am sold that this car can easily do what it is promised and hundreds have done it before me..
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R10981 - P85WHITE19AIRTANOBWOODALLextras - VIN 4432
Seegem
Member
That's okay for someone with a little experience who knows what the car's limits are. Not when the advice you have been given is to wait for a full charge.
The car never said he had enough range on the day he ran out. He says Tesla 'cleared' him to take off with 32 miles of range and that he'd gain the more than 40 miles he needed back as he drove at highway speeds. I can't believe a Tesla engineer would tell him that.
Yes, the big drop overnight when not plugged in when cold outside was big and a problem but the reason why this story is so sensational is not that, it is the fact he drove it into it wouldn't drive anymore. A normal person would have at least pulled off the highway to a gas station or restaurant parking lot when down to a few miles so you didn't put yourself in danger bat least you might be able to find a 110V outlet and call a tow truck then.
Owner
Active Member
More coverage of Elon's response: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_22567808/teslas-stock-dips-after-negative-review-its-model
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
It seems as though some people in this thread are even misinterpreting the battery monitor on the speedometer.
The battery gauge never, ever indicates whether you can make it. A fuel gauge never, ever indicates whether you can make it either.
The gauge indicates RATED range (range if driven the same as the EPA test conditions), and IDEAL range (range if driven @ 55 mph under ideal conditions). Virtually never are either of these estimates of "whether you can make it", because it all depends on many factors as we've all noted. It's never "miles remaining". It never is in a gas car either.
Clearly, if the reporter was using the rated range gauge to determine whether he had enough miles to make it to the next stop, he was wrong. He should have been educated to add a buffer in to account for the fact that conditions were worse than the EPA 5-cycle test--namely cold weather.
The battery gauge never, ever indicates whether you can make it. A fuel gauge never, ever indicates whether you can make it either.
The gauge indicates RATED range (range if driven the same as the EPA test conditions), and IDEAL range (range if driven @ 55 mph under ideal conditions). Virtually never are either of these estimates of "whether you can make it", because it all depends on many factors as we've all noted. It's never "miles remaining". It never is in a gas car either.
Clearly, if the reporter was using the rated range gauge to determine whether he had enough miles to make it to the next stop, he was wrong. He should have been educated to add a buffer in to account for the fact that conditions were worse than the EPA 5-cycle test--namely cold weather.
Nice point. A very strong indicator that this was the, or at least *a* desired outcome. You can just imagine him watching that range indicator count down, thinking, "This is gonna be big". But this isn't exactly uncommon in "journalism"--hype up everything to the maximum degree. I'm sick of it, myself. Ultimate example of this? CNN.
+1 on all this.
Tesla needs to get way better at range prediction. Imagine if the external temp sensor fed data into range predictions, as well as the GPS which would see average speed limits along a route and adjust range estimate accordingly.
As far as Twitter goes, you take the good with the bad when you have an iconoclast genius CEO. Steve Jobs' rejection of conventional wisdom made Apple great, but also led him to make some bad health care decisions. Still, as far as I'm concerned Elon can be as eccentric as he likes; he still delivers the goods.
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Todd, you are right of course, but the range estimate invites literal interpretation in a way a gas gauge does not. The car collects lots of data that could helpfully improve range estimates, and I hope Tesla improves its approach.
Like most here, I am all for the company car being monitored. I even feel it was perfectly fine to not mention it. I don't think Tesla cares specifically that they sped in it, or took a detour. But, in this case, the NYT writer was told not to do those things. This doesn't excuse Tesla from needing to work on range prediction. They do.
How many articles have you seen where the author writes... "I drove the **** out the thing.." and reports his findings. Or... "I didn't fill completely due to time, and took a detour - as manyof us do in real life" and report his findings.
The kicker is when you say "I did exactly as told" and only then are the logs used to refute a lie. Same as the reviewer who says they drove a car "very easy" and claim it's gas mileage sucked when in actuality they drove it like a bat out of hell but didn't report it that way. That's essentially what happened here. But, thanks to Tesla's ability to track the details... Caught red-handed Broders. Suck it up.
How many articles have you seen where the author writes... "I drove the **** out the thing.." and reports his findings. Or... "I didn't fill completely due to time, and took a detour - as manyof us do in real life" and report his findings.
The kicker is when you say "I did exactly as told" and only then are the logs used to refute a lie. Same as the reviewer who says they drove a car "very easy" and claim it's gas mileage sucked when in actuality they drove it like a bat out of hell but didn't report it that way. That's essentially what happened here. But, thanks to Tesla's ability to track the details... Caught red-handed Broders. Suck it up.
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