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Obsessed with aero dynamics

Discussion in 'Model S' started by NielsChr, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. NielsChr

    NielsChr Member

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    #1 NielsChr, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
    I’ve just been playing around inside mspaint :redface: - isn’t the Tesla models S with aero wheels about .25 in cdW

    What about this ? should lower air resistant - I know you will have to think twice since we are not use to see cars like this ....but you gain probably more than 20 mils on highway....

    aro_tesla.png

    will probably require air suspension
     
  2. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    I am sure there will be people trying this out in practice. A few years down the road at least.
     
  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Heck, they may even sell wheelskirt kits. Though, with longer ranges coming and the aero wheels already in existence, it seems a bit much for very little gain.
     
  4. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I much prefer the 20 mile loss in range...

    Why not make the Model S a bubble car? Oh yeah...that hasn't worked so well in the past, has it?
     
  5. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I think the science behind reducing the Cd is pretty easy. The hard part is making it aerodynamic without making it fugly, that is an art.

    The aerodynamic wheels are a brilliant move, because they are a part of the car with significant impact on the aerodynamics, and are trivially swapped so the consumer can choose.

    I want to know the impact of the side mirrors, I hate the archaic rule requiring real mirrors instead of cameras. I would love to mod my car and put cameras in place of the mirrors ( reversibly so I could put the mirrors back with no harm done )
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yes, I think this thought is shared by many. Also, regulations for mirror size/shape is different for Europe vs North America.
    To save costs (and have only one mirror design) some manufacturers chose to make one larger side-view mirror design that satisfies both requirement.
     
  7. Bearman

    Bearman Member

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    ...

    +1
     
  8. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I did some googling and all I could find was some high school science experiment with a "wind tunnel" with and without mirrors on a model car. Someone surely has done better than that.
    Google powers activate!
     
  9. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Audi e-Tron concept:
    audi-e-tron-concept-rear-view-camera.jpg
    Audi%20E-Tron%203-4WM.jpg
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Cadillac Converj concept:
    112_0904_20z+cadillac_converj+side_view_mirror.jpg
    gm-cadillac-converj-plug-in-hybrid03.jpg
     
  12. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Yeah what I want to see is: CdA of X with mirrors and CdA of Y without mirrors, for an N% reduction in drag.
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #13 TEG, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
    Side mirror drag effect on fuel economy - quantified - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com
    why don't we have cameras replacing side view mirrors yet? - AnandTech Forums
    infiniticoupe-offl00004.jpg
    infiniticoupe-offl00006.jpg

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060715051619/http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~lelo/rvad/reports/rva2002_gr11_contribution-to-drag.pdf
     
  14. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Since the Model S needs vastly less "engine cooling" and the underbody is completely smooth because it doesnt have a bunch of exhaust pipes hanging down there, it seems likely that mirrors contribute much more than the 3 - 6 % they would in an ICE.
     
  15. Andrew Wolfe

    Andrew Wolfe Roadster 472 - S 440

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    Nissan's chief engineer for the Leaf told us that the funny frog-like headlight bulge on the Leaf is to deflect airflow around the mirrors. The primary concern was not aerodynamics - but noise. In a car as quiet as a Leaf, the airflow over the mirrors was otherwise audible.
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #16 TEG, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
    Yes, and the LEAF is remarkably quiet a freeway speeds. I enjoy that aspect on my daily highway commute.

    Nissan Leaf
    4623330019_2a751d5498_o.jpg
     
  17. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    I don't think that rule is archaic; it exists as a failsafe in case of parts failure, much like the mechanical emergency brake (which apparently the Model S won't have). In fact, three semi-redundant mirrors are required. I guess if you had two redundant cameras, redundant batteries supplying them, redundant screens, and redundant sets of wiring, plus the center rear-view mirror, that would be an adequate substitute. But you're getting into "really complicated" at this point. I wonder if one could simply design a curved mirror for side view which could be mounted inside the car.
     
  18. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

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    Well you don't need redundant batteries. If the main battery is not working, you're not going anywhere any way :)
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yeah, I had been pondering that one too. These days I tend to point my side view mirrors rather outwards to watch the "blind spot" and use the center rear-view mirror for looking at traffic behind. Newer cars with steeply raked windshields (for better aerodynamics) have started sporting a larger triangle window in front of the side view mirrors, so one could conceivably put an interior wide angle mirror to help you look out the sides instead of an external mirror. Some non-USA cars had side-view mirrors much further forward (even on the hood) which may have some merit as you can use the mirror without taking your eyes so far away from the road ahead.
    leafmirror.jpg
    [​IMG]

    Fender/hood mounted side mirrors - side mirrors cars | Ask MetaFilter
     
  20. Sig698

    Sig698 Model S Sig Perf #698

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    I know the conversation has moved on from the wheel fairings, but I feel like I should dissuade anyone from pursuing something like this for their model S. It's in our best interests as EV enthusiasts to promote our cars as a desirable alternative to ICE cars. I know the concept is beneficial to any type of car, but the instant people see an EV with fairings, they will see it differently. It may be efficient, but it's unsightly and will make others lust after the car less. As an F1 fan, I'm extremely interested in aerodynamics as well, but we should keep our cars as presentable and accessible as possible if we want more people to go out and buy these cars.
     

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