Octopus Tesla Energy Plan

[MrBadger]

Octopus will turn off the charger or limit the charge rate during peak times and unleash full rate during times when the wholesale cost is lower/off peak.

How would they do that? Its not a smart charge point. Apart from the car itself, or the (not normally used) load balancing cable on wall connector (to allow multiple Tesla wall connectors to share a load), there is no method of curtailing charge rates/times. So if, or whatever they are planning on doing, is not what smart chargers are doing.

 

[vitesse]

How would they do that? Its not a smart charge point. Apart from the car itself, or the (not normally used) load balancing cable on wall connector (to allow multiple Tesla wall connectors to share a load), there is no method of curtailing charge rates/times. So if, or whatever they are planning on doing, is not what smart chargers are doing.

Octopus has an 'Agile' plan that bills dynamically to the market rate as it changes minute by minute throughout the day - could it be linked to that?

 

[MrBadger]

Octopus has an 'Agile' plan that bills dynamically to the market rate as it changes minute by minute throughout the day - could it be linked to that?

I can see WHY they may want to do it, but not a definitive HOW. At present, most Tesla wall connectors are not connected to anything other than the car, or the power supply. So apart from controlling via the car, or connecting the (mostly unconnected) load balancing cable to something, they have no way of achieving this. Would like to know why the insistence on using the Tesla wall connector.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I can see WHY they may want to do it, but not a definitive HOW.

COMMs to the car to Start/Stop charging seems easiest route

(That wouldn't need a requirement for TWC though ...)

 

[MrBadger]

COMMs to the car to Start/Stop charging seems easiest route

Yes it can be done via api to start/stop, but it cannot be used to limit charge rate. The only bit that can do that is the load balancing connector on the TWC but that would require some previously unknown (other than hacked) control device*.

* a box on my todo list to build and control from my solar. Which is why I am so interested

 

[WannabeOwner]

it cannot be used to limit charge rate.

Good point. Do you think they will care? - i.e. if Tariff Rate is low enough (or not "busy time, go away") then perhaps charging flat out is fine?

I haven't thought about all smart meters in a street charging at half-power to now overload local circuits ... but perhaps smart meters will be instructed to do that, when necessary?

 

[NewbieT]

Smart meters do theoretically have the ability to disconnect remotely albeit I understand suppliers haven’t done that before (too nervous about the legal implications?). It would be no use in this instance as you’d loose the whole house. Major grid imbalance load shedding maybe but not for optimisation. Or were you thinking about some kind of interface like the in house display?

 

[Mr Miserable]

The Tesla Energy Plan sounds good however, because it's Tesla, I doubt there is a plan.

 

[kuruma]

not a definitive HOW. At present, most Tesla wall connectors are not connected to anything other than the car, or the power supply.

if you have the tesla wall connector and a powerwall, are the two not connected in some way?

 

[Yev000]

So 1 powerwall 8k, solar lets say another 8k

16k and you save £600 max per year - my entire electricity bill. Plus what you use in the car - in my case about £60 per month will be more like £30 per month due to nice tarrif. So another £360 per year.

Lets call it 1k a year


16 years to break even?


Sounds like a shitty investment. The lifespan of the equipment is not much more than that.

 

[MrBadger]

if you have the tesla wall connector and a powerwall, are the two not connected in some way?

Other than by electrons, no.

Unless they have come up with some otherwise unknown connection. The Tesla wall connector is as dumb as they get, well almost, except for talking to the car and, if its load sharing, with other wall connectors in which there will be a master wall connector and one or more slaves. All of which are nothing to do with a Powerwall.

So other than brand consistency, why the insistence on a Tesla wall connector?

 

[MrBadger]

Good point. Do you think they will care? - i.e. if Tariff Rate is low enough (or not "busy time, go away") then perhaps charging flat out is fine?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but peak output of Powerwall is 5kW, so less than the 7kW the car will want. So unless power is curtailed, then charging the car is going to be drawing some, possibly 2kW or more, from the grid. Which goes back to the, is the wall connector playing some unknown part in this, or is it just brand consistency/promotion and a fine balancing act with tarrif prices and TOU?

 

[gangzoom]

Sounds like a shitty investment. The lifespan of the equipment is not much more than that.

Some times life isn't just all about money, a £500 Nissan Micra makes any Tesla looks like a shitty investment, yet here we all are .

 

[Adopado]

Some times life isn't just all about money, a £500 Nissan Micra makes any Tesla looks like a shitty investment, yet here we all are .

True enough. Everybody seems to expect payback ... you don't expect to get payback on many other items that you buy! At least you get ongoing cheaper power, you can feel good about reducing your cabin footprint and in some cases you can manage a bit of off-grid power when there's a power cut. And we can already enjoy driving cars that are followed by clouds of grateful butterflies and the smell of fresh flowers ...

 

[gangzoom]

I suspect this is what the power companies are trying to experiment with as more people get on grid battery storage.

Yesterday inlaws arrived, lots of cooking, electric heater on in the guest room, white goods running, the power demand during 'peak' evening times was massive compared to the rest of day.

But thanks to the PowerWall our grid energy use was virtually zero during peak demand times.

instead currently its pulling crazy amount of power from the grid, along with the car charging.

You can now see how good a tool localised battery storage can be at helping to smooth out energy demands. I suspect like all things in life if the power companies can smooth out power usage through out the day and achieve a flat line for power demand without spikes in demand they can optimise power generation more effectively.

It also shows how our own individual actions really has a massive impact on grid demands, our normal electricity use is about 1/3 of what it was yesterday.....But who here is brave enough to suggest to their inlaws maybe they need to modify their electricity consumption behaviour.

Much like EVs, home battery storage is going to change the electricity supply buissness. I see next year selling back to the grid with smart meters will become a government backed scheme.

Really interesting times we live in, am just thankful we have the means to experience this tech first hand .

 

[WannabeOwner]

Sounds like a shitty investment. The lifespan of the equipment is not much more than that.

Indeed. Compared to PV + FITS etc. then Battery looks like a poor investment ... but so did all my other early-mover Eco investments, which had my friends howling with laughter and derision ... and then green with envy shortly thereafter ...

None of them looked like having any payback at the time but then [unforeseen] soaring oil price, or some other world-event, handed me a bonus.

We've upgraded the house to Passive House standards. Now it needs piddling amount of energy for winter heating; the maths for the cost was horrible ... but ... in 5 years neither wife nor I have had a winter cold or cough, always had one before and I always took months to shake mine off. How to value that? (Its a known benefit ... except ... I didn't know about it, until afterwards). Beautiful even shirt-sleeves temperature

Being an early adopter also gives me the benefit immediately. I could wait until price falls, or price of oil/electricity forces my hand (and demonstrates viable payback), but then I still have powercuts in the meantime. Who knows if we might get another Winter of Discontent ... or the Storm of 1987. A new Model-S is £20K cheaper now than when I ordered mine 4 years ago... I could have waited, but how awful stuck driving ICE maybe a sudden event will mean that H2G pays me a unexpected dividend

I read a physiologists thesis on why people enjoy driving EV (compared to ICE), and the main reason given was "smugness". That works for me If driving EV, or owning Battery etc., makes people feel better than that's definitely a "value".

is the wall connector playing some unknown part in this, or is it just brand consistency/promotion and a fine balancing act with tarrif prices and TOU?

My Armchair Theory! : PowerWall talks to Tesla HQ, and HQ talks to Car, and Car reduces AMPs. maybe PowerWall can vary that in real time based on the Delta between House Use and max Battery Output.

But I don't really want to charge my car from Battery ... that increases the losses ... but I suppose if I had unlimited PV and car was at-work during the day ...

 

[henleyregatta]

I know this is late to the game but...

I had the email recently. Intrigued enough to click through, I got the following info I've not seen on the thread:

• You can express interest if you don't have PowerWall or Solar. At the end of the process they say "we'll have someone in touch to give you a quote for these"
• In addition to all of the previous named pre-reqs (A Tesla Car, a Home Charger, a Driveway, a Powerwall, Home Solar, A Cuddly Toy), they also require you to have a smart meter. But they'll fit one of those too if you need it.
• Buried in the FAQs is the line "You can have any car charger but you must disable any smart features so we can control it instead"
• If I've understood things correctly, you don't get to run your PowerWall yourself, you handover complete control of it to Tesla's "Advanced Algorithm". That's how the smart savings come in. Apparently.
• Against all this, there isn't a minimum term to the agreement. Presumably if you leave the plan you're out the installation costs but regain control of the Powerwall....

 

[Yev000]

Some times life isn't just all about money,

When it comes to a utility box on the wall of your house, yeah its just about money. It's not a bloody Picasso...

 

[Yev000]

you can feel good about reducing your cabin footprint

I realise you're being funny, but a power wall has no function other than saving money on your electricity.

You are not saving CO2s, because you just did a lot of work on your house that you didn't need to do. Add up all the waste creating in manufacturing and installing that setup first if you care about your carbon halo.

 

[Yev000]

How to value that?

You are comparing the whole package to just a powerwall + solar. Arguably if I move into a passive house today (not build one myself) without battery storage and solar I would not be installing it myself. At this point is purely financial, even if bills double, the payback is still 15+ years. And if it is a passive house the bills would be tiny anyway, so payback is even further away.

A basic 4KW install generating power all day, during the summer would power my commute one way. In the Tesla that's ~£1. In the winter, forget it...

Now if you put rolling blackouts into the formula, the value shoots up massively. But you can put a system in if and when that starts happening.

The other end of the equation is building a new house with all this stuff makes perfect sense because houses last longer than 15 years and it will eventually pay for itself even in UK.

Guy sitting across from me in the office did solar + hot water heating with excess. He has a mechanical meter that runs backwards.... Back on the old FIT tariff hes now printing money while rejecting smart meter installs....

Sure if you put a lot of value into the 'floating your boat' then yeah...