Soul Surfer
Cancervivor, tech geek & musician
You clearly don’t live in Canada so why suggest that. Why would I do something like that? We are more likely to find CCS in remote regions than CHAdeMO or NACS.
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OEM CCS adapter now available to order in North America, Retrofit for older cars coming in 2023
- Thread starter MP3Mike
- Start date
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Because the Tesla connector is the official nationwide standard in Canada and all charging stations are converting to it. Tesla doubled their Canadian Supercharger development team last year, and as I type, there's some EVGo employee out there in the snow gluing more Tesla adapters onto those worthless Chademo plugs.
You made it 2 years without CCS and now there are vastly more superchargers than ever. A year from now you'll have trouble even finding CCS so why spend a fortune to convert for such a brief period? There are currently Superchargers pretty much everywhere other than the far North, do you really need to fast charge up there so many times in the coming year that it's worth all that money? And does the CCS charger up there even work?
You made it 2 years without CCS and now there are vastly more superchargers than ever. A year from now you'll have trouble even finding CCS so why spend a fortune to convert for such a brief period? There are currently Superchargers pretty much everywhere other than the far North, do you really need to fast charge up there so many times in the coming year that it's worth all that money? And does the CCS charger up there even work?
smogne41
Active Member
You still need the CCS upgrade to be able to use any of the 3rd party NACS stations once they exist. Does not matter today to most of us, but will soon for sure.
Soul Surfer
Cancervivor, tech geek & musician
Wrong! It is not. Whatever you’re reading doesn’t make you a Canadian expert. Remote areas are still CHAdeMO and CCS. It will take a while. Even my travels in the USA are showing up with some CHAdeMO and CCS when off the grid. I know you want to be right, but you’re not. AND I will need the gen 4 ECU for non-Tesla NACS fast chargers.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Yes, as I mentioned, you'll still encounter some obsolete (and likely broken) chargers in remote areas. That doesn't detract from the fact that the Tesla connector is the official national standard.
Also, I'm aware that some poorly reverse-engineered aftermarket CCS->NACS adapters might not work properly on older Teslas due to the CAN/Powerline differences, but just because some homemade Alibaba crap isn't made correctly doesn't mean that an actual NACS charging station would somehow be incapable of charging older Teslas. That's simply ridiculous. First, everyone knows the details of the Tesla standard - there are no secrets. Second, Tesla willingly and deliberately publishes/promotes the standard. You really think some dumbass at ChargePoint is going to deliberately sabotage all their NACS chargers such that they only work on half the Teslas that try to use them?
Also, I'm aware that some poorly reverse-engineered aftermarket CCS->NACS adapters might not work properly on older Teslas due to the CAN/Powerline differences, but just because some homemade Alibaba crap isn't made correctly doesn't mean that an actual NACS charging station would somehow be incapable of charging older Teslas. That's simply ridiculous. First, everyone knows the details of the Tesla standard - there are no secrets. Second, Tesla willingly and deliberately publishes/promotes the standard. You really think some dumbass at ChargePoint is going to deliberately sabotage all their NACS chargers such that they only work on half the Teslas that try to use them?
Soul Surfer
Cancervivor, tech geek & musician
Still trying to get the last word in on my country? I have the OEM Tesla made CCS adapter, so it better work. And please keep your “business” outside of ours. You’re not a Canuck. We’re the polite people, but just don’t mess with us on the ice on hockey.
The point about many CCS being broken is true in the US, but doesn't apply to Quebec and probably other parts of Canada. Flo and Circuit Electrique have been maintaining their network really well, and they probably use hardware that's more stable that in the USA. I presume it's at least also true for providers in Ontario.
AND: The point about NACS is moot as it requires CCS communication, which for our old Teslas means upgrading to support CCS...
AND: The point about NACS is moot as it requires CCS communication, which for our old Teslas means upgrading to support CCS...
Soul Surfer
Cancervivor, tech geek & musician
100% The @Gauss Guzzler is comparing us to the USA. What they fail to realize is that Canada, while being approximately 10% of the USA population, does have a bigger land mass overall, AND have a lower per capita percentage of rednecks who hate EV's, LOL. Quebec and BC have the highest adoption rates with Ontario, finally starting to catch on. Dude, just wants to be right or wishes they were a Canuck
I had brief experience of eCharegeNetwork and Flo 50kW CCS in New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island and they all worked without a hitch (Kona). The one pair of TCH Petro Canada chargers we'd have used (Moncton, NB) were not working and hadn't been for months. However, that was July 2022 and we know that there had been more problems getting spare parts at that time.
You're right, some newer networks like Petro Canada have also had issues here. It seems like the faster chargers are more prone to fail. Flo/CE have a lot of 50 and 100kW chargers that are flawless. They seem to have waited before installing 350kW chargers, maybe it was to first test them and make sure they are reliable 
I wish we were all as lucky as those in California and had a super charger every 3 to 5 miles
Also wish that Flo/CE would get some faster charges, I see many more 50kW than 100 and wish that they had 150 & 250kW chargers
Also wish that Flo/CE would get some faster charges, I see many more 50kW than 100 and wish that they had 150 & 250kW chargers
smogne41
Active Member
READ the NACS standard document from Tesla, it is not long. It explicitly specifics CCS coms over PLC for DCFC. The Tesla CANbus Supercharging protocol is absolutely not part of the NACS standard (and is still totally proprietary to Tesla). Absolutely no 3rd party NACS station is going to support older Tesla's, unless the standard is radically expanded (which is probably not going to happen). This is why all of us with older cars will want the CCS upgrade eventually.
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Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Read what? I can't find any document from Tesla which "explicitly" threatens legal action against charging stations who choose to charge older Teslas.
Please cite your source. I'll cite mine:
I think you guys are conflating portable adapters with actual charging stations - they are not the same thing and do not have the same limitations.
When ChargePoint/Flo/whoever comes out to convert their old CCS charging stations, they're not just going to show up with whatever cheap random adapter they found on eBay and duct-tape it on. They're going to take a minute to update the little circuit board inside which manages the communication and they're going to do it with whatever protocols they legally can. So unless you guys have somehow found evidence that Tesla has vowed to block them from doing so, we can be certain that for-profit charging stations are not going to intentionally exclude a huge percentage of the nation's EVs.
Still trying to get the last word in on my country? ... keep your “business” outside of ours. You’re not a Canuck. We’re the polite people... wishes they were a Canuck
A lot of irony to unpack there but I'll note that being irrationally offended by the mere existence of facts and resorting to hateful nationalism is really more of an American thing. Perhaps we have more in common than you think?
Soul Surfer
Cancervivor, tech geek & musician
Most Canucks don't take too kindly to American arrogance. I'm one of them.Read what? I can't find any document from Tesla which "explicitly" threatens legal action against charging stations who choose to charge older Teslas.
Please cite your source. I'll cite mine:
I think you guys are conflating portable adapters with actual charging stations - they are not the same thing and do not have the same limitations.
When ChargePoint/Flo/whoever comes out to convert their old CCS charging stations, they're not just going to show up with whatever cheap random adapter they found on eBay and duct-tape it on. They're going to take a minute to update the little circuit board inside which manages the communication and they're going to do it with whatever protocols they legally can. So unless you guys have somehow found evidence that Tesla has vowed to block them from doing so, we can be certain that for-profit charging stations are not going to intentionally exclude a huge percentage of the nation's EVs.
A lot of irony to unpack there but I'll note that being irrationally offended by the mere existence of facts and resorting to hateful nationalism is really more of an American thing. Perhaps we have more in common than you think?
Sure, they have threatened anything, but the Tesla Supercharger protocol isn't a part of the NACS standard, and details on it have not been released. In fact, if a third-party was using the Tesla Supercharger protocol then it wouldn't be a NACS charger. (Since the NACS standard specifies using the CCS protocol.)
I have not seen any third party that has said they plan to support the Tesla Supercharger protocol, just that they will support NACS.
As far as your source, I don't think anyone has taken Tesla up on using their "open" patents because of the "poison pill" that it contains. (I'm not sure that the Tesla Supercharger protocol is covered in a patent, so I doubt that is up for grabs.)
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Right, so the blindly fabricated assumption is that Tesla will exploit/abuse their early-adopting customers as pawns to either cripple or sue ChargePoint. Despite zero evidence of that intent and Tesla's countless public statements and actions indicating the exact opposite.
Is that a fair summary?
Is that a fair summary?
davewill
Active Member
I can tell you that local EVGo chargers with Tesla plugs don't work with my non-CCS Model 3. It's unfortunate, but understandable for creating a universal standard. If I had the need, I'd pony up for the upgrade, but our Model Y is the road trip car and it's CCS capable.
I'm not going to take the M3SR far enough to need other than Superchargers, not here in SoCal.
I'm not going to take the M3SR far enough to need other than Superchargers, not here in SoCal.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
That's interesting @davewill, EVGo began installing Tesla connectors back around the time of the October 2020 ECU change so I would expect that a lot of people would have noted the incompatibility but I can't find any other references. Have you seen anything official from EVGo or Tesla on this topic?
It seems like people were charging just fine in 2020, and likely would have been doing so with pre-October hardware:
And when I looked up a couple of EVGo Tesla chargers in SD, the reviews mostly just say that they are broken, nothing about needing the CCS upgrade to use:
Of course they're all right next to real Tesla Superchargers so there may not be many people experimenting with them as you did. Is it possible that the chargers you tried were just broken?
It seems like people were charging just fine in 2020, and likely would have been doing so with pre-October hardware:
And when I looked up a couple of EVGo Tesla chargers in SD, the reviews mostly just say that they are broken, nothing about needing the CCS upgrade to use:
Camino Town and Country | Oceanside, CA | EV Station
Find EV charging stations with PlugShare, the most complete map of electric vehicle charging stations in the world!Charging tips reviews and photos from the EV community.
www.plugshare.com
Sheraton Mission Valley | San Diego, CA | EV Station
On the east side of the lobby entrance. At the "Parking Rates" sign, make a right, and go to the end of the street.
www.plugshare.com
Of course they're all right next to real Tesla Superchargers so there may not be many people experimenting with them as you did. Is it possible that the chargers you tried were just broken?
