Older cars upgradable to newer Tesla chip?

[dark cloud]

Just browsing around, found this article , and the last sentence was the reason I am posting this:

"The AI chip took 14 months to design, and now Samsung is manufacturing the processor. It's shipping in newer Tesla cars now, and older models can be upgraded."

Do we know this? Is this a thing? Or does Cnet not know what they are talking about?

 

[diplomat33]

Just browsing around, found this article , and the last sentence was the reason I am posting this:

"The AI chip took 14 months to design, and now Samsung is manufacturing the processor. It's shipping in newer Tesla cars now, and older models can be upgraded."

Do we know this? Is this a thing? Or does Cnet not know what they are talking about?

AP1 cars cannot be upgraded.

AP2 car can get the upgrade. So yes, "older" models can get the upgrade as long as they are AP2 cars.

 

[azred]

Just browsing around, found this article , and the last sentence was the reason I am posting this:

"The AI chip took 14 months to design, and now Samsung is manufacturing the processor. It's shipping in newer Tesla cars now, and older models can be upgraded."

Do we know this? Is this a thing? Or does Cnet not know what they are talking about?

There are a lot of threads here discussing the topic. Many posters believe the older 2.0 cars may be problematic, but Elon tweeted that both 2.0 and 2.5 would receive HW3. As a 2.0 S owner, I am skeptical but hopeful, as Elon tweets tend to be stream of consciousness at times.

 

[boonedocks]

There are a lot of threads here discussing the topic. Many posters believe the older 2.0 cars may be problematic, but Elon tweeted that both 2.0 and 2.5 would receive HW3. As a 2.0 S owner, I am skeptical but hopeful, as Elon tweets tend to be stream of consciousness at times.

Someone at Tesla truly needs to pull Elon's twitter account from him. You wonder why the SEC is keeping a thumb on him. SMH SMH SMH

 

[EVNow]

You wonder why the SEC is keeping a thumb on him. SMH SMH SMH

Because they are Short Enrichment Commission.

They let hedge funds do blatant manipulation of stocks and somehow one CEOs twitter account is problematic ?!

 

[EVNow]

Someone at Tesla truly needs to pull Elon's twitter account from him. You wonder why the SEC is keeping a thumb on him. SMH SMH SMH

BTW, this is what I've been saying in other threads here. There are a small group of people hell bent on thread cr*pping with trollish OT comments in every thread in the sub-forum. There are specific threads / forums to talk about Musk & SEC & the market. Why not post there (and probably get banned ?).

 

[verygreen]

AP2 car can get the upgrade. So yes, "older" models can get the upgrade as long as they are AP2 cars.

correction

ap2.5 cars can get the upgrade.

ap2.0 cars is a whole different story though

 

[azred]

correction

ap2.5 cars can get the upgrade.

ap2.0 cars is a whole different story though

This comment reflects what I mentioned above. In spite of Musk tweeting specifically that all cars with FSD option will get HW3, lots of people here insist that may not happen for 2.0 cars — even though there are surely many thousands of 2.0 cars with FSD purchased. If those of you who are skeptics are right, this situation will get really ugly. For sure they will at least owe us refunds of the FSD purchase price though I will admit it may take a class action suit to get the refunds. I assume Tesla would slow play any relief in the hopes many of those cars would get returned to Tesla via trades or lease terminations before any damages would accrue against them. Maybe that is the plan. Hopefully not.

 

[BigD0g]

This comment reflects what I mentioned above. In spite of Musk tweeting specifically that all cars with FSD option will get HW3, lots of people here insist that may not happen for 2.0 cars — even though there are surely many thousands of 2.0 cars with FSD purchased. If those of you who are skeptics are right, this situation will get really ugly. For sure they will at least owe us refunds of the FSD purchase price though I will admit it may take a class action suit to get the refunds. I assume Tesla would slow play any relief in the hopes many of those cars would get returned to Tesla via trades or lease terminations before any damages would accrue against them. Maybe that is the plan. Hopefully not.

It's going to be a class action to return the cars! They sold us the cars saying it had "all" hardware needed for FSD or could be upgraded. As soon as they admit they can't do it, the lawyers will get rich.

For the people that know more than most, it's not just a computer swap between AP2 and AP2.5 there are multiple differences that Tesla did not admit they did when putting in the 2.5 hardware not related to the AP computer. I imagine Tesla believes they have enough legal wiggle room within the sales contract that they have an out to not deliver what they "said" they were going to deliver because it was just on the website and was not part of the sales contract at purchase.

 

[EVNow]

It's going to be a class action to return the cars! They sold us the cars saying it had "all" hardware needed for FSD or could be upgraded. As soon as they admit they can't do it, the lawyers will get rich.

When they sold AP 2 cars, what was the specific wording ? Otherwise as long as AP2 cars are on the road they won't say they can't achieve FSD with current HW

 

[BigD0g]

When they sold AP 2 cars, what was the specific wording ? Otherwise as long as AP2 cars are on the road they won't say they can't achieve FSD with current HW

Completely agree, they’ll never admit it, and constantly postpone the hw upgrade. It’s almost guaranteed.

 

[EVNow]

Completely agree, they’ll never admit it, and constantly postpone the hw upgrade. It’s almost guaranteed.

Why would they postpone the hw upgrade ?

Oh - you are speculating that Tesla can't achieve FSD because of lack of sensors. Extremely unlikely - it would be because FSD is difficult to achieve without some s/w breakthrough.

ps : It is extremely beneficial for Tesla to upgrade HW, deliver City NOA and recognize a lot of the FSD revenue. It increases their margin. Makes them profitable and thereby burning shorts. Something very, very dear to Musk.

 

[S100D]

It's going to be a class action to return the cars! They sold us the cars saying it had "all" hardware needed for FSD or could be upgraded. As soon as they admit they can't do it, the lawyers will get rich.

For the people that know more than most, it's not just a computer swap between AP2 and AP2.5 there are multiple differences that Tesla did not admit they did when putting in the 2.5 hardware not related to the AP computer. I imagine Tesla believes they have enough legal wiggle room within the sales contract that they have an out to not deliver what they "said" they were going to deliver because it was just on the website and was not part of the sales contract at purchase.

I copied 2 lines of the purchase agreement for my December 2016 S90D which say:

Enhanced Autopilot $5,000
Full Self-Driving Capability $3,000

I believe that my Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement should be the same as a sales contract. If I am missing something, please let me know.

The website and prior communications from Tesla and Elon say that all Tesla's with AP2 and higher hardware will be able to have Full Self Driving. I do not understand how Tesla has wiggle room to get out of providing FSD for my Model S.

I do understand that Tesla may not have the hardware in the AP2 cars to implement Full Self Driving and that it may be too expensive for them to retrofit the AP2 cars. I agree that there may be a class action law suit to force them to do more that just give us our money back for FSD.

 

[BigD0g]

Why would they postpone the hw upgrade ?

Oh - you are speculating that Tesla can't achieve FSD because of lack of sensors. Extremely unlikely - it would be because FSD is difficult to achieve without some s/w breakthrough.

ps : It is extremely beneficial for Tesla to upgrade HW, deliver City NOA and recognize a lot of the FSD revenue. It increases their margin. Makes them profitable and thereby burning shorts. Something very, very dear to Musk.

To be clear, I only think they will postpone the 2.0 cars. There's no reason I'm aware to postpone 2.5 cars. There's a number of non trivial differences between 2.0 and 2.5 that probably would prove expensive to retrofit.

Some of them are to name a few from 2.0 -> 2.5:
Redundant Steering servos
eFuse for battery
Different wiring for backup camera to APE
Different camera sensors
Different more sensitive radar
Redundant wiring for radar

 

[BigD0g]

I copied 2 lines of the purchase agreement for my December 2016 S90D which say:

Enhanced Autopilot $5,000
Full Self-Driving Capability $3,000

I believe that my Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement should be the same as a sales contract. If I am missing something, please let me know.

The website and prior communications from Tesla and Elon say that all Tesla's with AP2 and higher hardware will be able to have Full Self Driving. I do not understand how Tesla has wiggle room to get out of providing FSD for my Model S.

I do understand that Tesla may not have the hardware in the AP2 cars to implement Full Self Driving and that it may be too expensive for them to retrofit the AP2 cars. I agree that there may be a class action law suit to force them to do more that just give us our money back for FSD.

No where in your agreement does it say Tesla is on the hook for whatever it takes to upgrade the hardware to achieve FSD. The only thing we had at the time was a website saying we have all the hardware needed for FSD and a few tweet from Elon saying only a computer upgrade is required to achieve FSD. However, none of that is in writing and none of that is in your purchase agreement.

 

[EVNow]

To be clear, I only think they will postpone the 2.0 cars. There's no reason I'm aware to postpone 2.5 cars. There's a number of non trivial differences between 2.0 and 2.5 that probably would prove expensive to retrofit.

Got it. I thought it was going to be a repeat of the other thread about upgrades.

I don't know whether or not they can "easily" upgrade 2.0 cars.

BTW, do you know how many 2.0 cars have been sold ?

One way Tesla can deal with this (if upgrading 2.0 is really very difficult) is to offer a good deal on a new S/X instead. Most people would take it … or just return the FSD money, if that is cheaper.

 

[BigD0g]

BTW, do you know how many 2.0 cars have been sold ?

I’d speculate, but do not know / unwilling to go figure it out for sure but maybe 60 - 70k cars maybe?

To figure it out, just look at the tesla earnings reports covering Nov 2016 - Aug 2017 for S/X, that should get you pretty darn close to the actual number. @jimmy_d might remember, I know we’ve chatted about this before?

 

[EVNow]

I’d speculate, but do not know / unwilling to go figure it out for sure but maybe 60 - 70k cars maybe?

To figure it out, just look at the tesla earnings reports covering Nov 2016 - Aug 2017 for S/X, that should get you pretty darn close to the actual number. @jimmy_d might remember, I know we’ve chatted about this before?

Q4 '16 to Q3 '17 is a total of 95,244 s&x delivered. This would be the upper bound since I'm including 2 extra months.

Assuming 10% of them bought FSD (probably a high number) for $3k (?) - it would be about $100M. Not peanuts - but Tesla has written down more than that in a quarter - and that goes directly to the bottom line. This would be just a one time cash expense with no effect on P&L. They can do this in a quarter when they are flush with cash (Q4 '19 or Q3/Q4 '20).

 

[S100D]

Got it. I thought it was going to be a repeat of the other thread about upgrades.

I don't know whether or not they can "easily" upgrade 2.0 cars.

BTW, do you know how many 2.0 cars have been sold ?

One way Tesla can deal with this (if upgrading 2.0 is really very difficult) is to offer a good deal on a new S/X instead. Most people would take it … or just return the FSD money, if that is cheaper.

I traded in my S85D AP1 car for the the 2016 AP2 Model S because of the promise of Full Self Driving. I will not accept $3,000 back because they cannot upgrade my car so it can do Full Self Driving. It will take a deep discount on a new Model S to make me happy.

 

[alcibiades]

No where in your agreement does it say Tesla is on the hook for whatever it takes to upgrade the hardware to achieve FSD. The only thing we had at the time was a website saying we have all the hardware needed for FSD and a few tweet from Elon saying only a computer upgrade is required to achieve FSD. However, none of that is in writing and none of that is in your purchase agreement.

For what it's worth (nothing), Tesla still hosts this release:

All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

IANAL