Ontario EV incentives upped to $14K... and decreased to $3k for Tesla

[wayner]

I've been in one that was outfitted as a luxury limo. But they are mainly targeting fleet sales. Nevertheless, VIA is the first, not these guys.

Doesn't that depend on whether you think minivan is different from van? I would think that they are different as a minivan is targeted as a family vehicle and is a very different market than fleets or utilities or limos. Is there much overlap in the markets for the VIA and the Pacifica?

 

[Doug_G]

Hairs be split!

 

[Daliman]

Spectacular news! The province has now updated the plan for the first $20 million that they plan to spend on Level II and III charging stations. All are to be active by March 31, 2017. I have attached links to the press release and the interactive map and address list for the chargers. They are very widely distributed along the 400 series of highways, including enough in Northern Ontario that you might be able to make it to the Manitoba border. Speaking personally there are two on the way to my cottage so that range worry has been eliminated. The other 80 million mentioned in the climate change plan does not appear to have been allocated yet. I have not gone through the list in any depth but the Toronto Star article indicates that many are at Time Hortons, McDonalds, Ikea and there are at least 20 in the parking garages at Pearson Airport.

Electric Vehicles Chargers Ontario
Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Coming Soon
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...-car-plan-with-expanded-charging-network.html

 

[Daliman]

Sorry missed this first time through, this list is easier to read and is broken down by regions.

Electric Vehicle Charging Stations

 

[wallstguy]

Are these chargers going to be free to use?

 

[phigment]

Each site will determine payment amount. Some may opt for free charge to attract customers.

 

[Daliman]

The press release doesn't say but the star article speculates most will charge a fee.

 

[wallstguy]

So why is the government paying for these chargers if they will be used for revenue generating purposes?

 

[jelloslug]

My goodness. GM really is the boogeyman around here. The ELR and the CT6 PHEV will also have their rebate capped at $3k. And the Model 3 will qualify as well.

Could be that giving rebates for luxury vehicles was seen as politically unwise.

- - - Updated - - -



Effective today.

So a car that is no longer made and a car that is not made yet are not getting big rebates? Got it...

 

[RAM_Eh]

So why is the government paying for these chargers if they will be used for revenue generating purposes?

No to generate the infrastructure only. The stations will be allowed to charge, but they will be privately run.

 

[wallstguy]

I understand they will be privately run, but essentially these private owners are getting a free revenue stream since the government is paying for the infrastructure.

Considering their at places like McDonalds, Timmies, etc. That should already be a marketing advantage to boost sales, but they're also allowed to make money off of infrastructure they didn't have to pay for...

 

[RiverBrick]

I hope they're not free, because I want to be able to use them without having to wait behind people too cheap to charge at home, or people who want to charge to 100% whe they only need 60%.

 

[rypalmer]

I understand they will be privately run, but essentially these private owners are getting a free revenue stream since the government is paying for the infrastructure.

Completely disagree. Electricity isn't free, nor is the sort of maintenance that will keep such a network reliable and sustainable. Free isn't sustainable in the long run, no matter if the capital costs are subsidized or not. Best we can hope for is a diversity of operators and an efficient market price for charging. This expansion is a great start, IMO.

 

[Daliman]

Thanks to Trev P for the links bellow. The stated intent of the project is to create a province wide network, with Level III chargers along all major highways. The map seems to show that they will have mostly accomplished this in one year. The ultimate cost should not come from the taxpayers but rather from large carbon emitters who have to buy credits under Cap and Trade (assuming that the program works). Personally I find that rather poetic. The province is taking a leap forward that would be unlikely if the incentive was not in place.

As for any profits made for charging a fee, the applicants have all agreed to maintain the sites and pay those costs for at least 5 years. Ultimately the infrastructure has to be built powered and maintained, none of which is free.

Electric Vehicle Chargers Ontario (EVCO) Program Guide
Tesla — CHAdeMO Adapter

 

[SmartElectric]

Electric Vehicle Chargers Ontario (EVCO) Program Guide

Doesn't state minimum amperage, just voltage.
Willing to bet these will be 20kW crippled chargers due to peak load concerns at the host?

In addition, Level 3 EVSEs must:

• Use a four-hundred eighty (480) volt, three (3) phase power input
• Contain at least 1 charge connector that is CHAdeMO compliant and 1 charge connector that is SAE J1772 Combo compliant.

Here is a good preview of how poor the technical requirements are, 40 amps minimum for the 208/240V charging locations. Oh my, not even competitive with what Sun Country Highway deployed. I consider this a great signal for how poorly this program will be managed if the minimum wasn't at least 70 amps.

Level 2 EVSEs Must:

• Use AC Input (208 to 240VAC) at 40 Amps minimum.
• Include a charge connector that is SAE J1772 compliant.
• The EVSE installation work at each EVSE Location must ‘rough in’ an appropriate level of capacity to support future demand and technology.

Well, at least they suggested to rough in more capacity. But that could just mean providing 100 amperage wire out to the charging station instead of 8x100 amp cable sets that would be a reasonable minimum.

 

[phigment]

Here is a good preview of how poor the technical requirements are, 40 amps minimum for the 208/240V charging locations. Oh my, not even competitive with what Sun Country Highway deployed. I consider this a great signal for how poorly this program will be managed if the minimum wasn't at least 70 amps.

Are there any cars aside from dual charger or newer 72A Teslas that can accept more than 40 amps AC?

 

[SmartElectric]

Are there any cars aside from dual charger or newer 72A Teslas that can accept more than 40 amps AC?

Only the Mercedes B-Class ED, which is not available in Canada.
As per:
Electric Car Charging 101 — Types of Charging, Charging Networks, Apps, & More!

Most of these chargers will be at non-residential locations, and therefore be on 208V.
40A x 208V = 8.3 kW

This is only 80% of the capability of the base Tesla charger.

My point (sorry if that wasn't expressly called out) is that higher capacity should have been a requirement as an incentive to manufacturers to provide higher speed charging.

 

[SuperOmega]

I'm sure Norway has stats on that and are willing to share.

Why are we reinventing the wheel? Pick up the phone and call Norway...how did you do it?

http://evroadmapconference.com/program/presentations15/OlaElvestuen.pdf

It's all right there...and I shared w politicians pre COP21 along w contact info for Noreweigan representatives.

It's not hard.

I just discovered this EV Roadmap Conference thingy by happy accident and not through this forum. The one for this year was last month. Time to make EVMR a new thread? (I did a search, couldn't find anything.)

Next Year's EV Roadmap Dates Announced - EVRM10 will be June 20-21, 2017

 

[Lon12]

Spectacular news! The province has now updated the plan for the first $20 million that they plan to spend on Level II and III charging stations. All are to be active by March 31, 2017. I have attached links to the press release and the interactive map and address list for the chargers. They are very widely distributed along the 400 series of highways, including enough in Northern Ontario that you might be able to make it to the Manitoba border. Speaking personally there are two on the way to my cottage so that range worry has been eliminated. The other 80 million mentioned in the climate change plan does not appear to have been allocated yet. I have not gone through the list in any depth but the Toronto Star article indicates that many are at Time Hortons, McDonalds, Ikea and there are at least 20 in the parking garages at Pearson Airport.

Electric Vehicles Chargers Ontario
Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Coming Soon
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...-car-plan-with-expanded-charging-network.html

More news:
Want Canadians to buy electric cars? Cash rebates may help, say officials

 

[Daliman]

Thanks for the update. Hopefully the Feds will actually put money on the table. A rebate of 3,000 is pretty small but if the HST was also cut as proposed by Ontario then the total savings would be significant. Working to build a charging network at least covering the length of the Trans Canada Hwy. is so obvious I can't believe it isn't underway.