Option for 'partial' EAP?

[brobinson]

All the arguments that the hardware is already in the car and its only a software update are completely missing the point.
If Tesla sold TACC on its own, say for $1000, maybe the majority of people would only buy that instead of the whole bundle.
Then Tesla loses money because $1K probably doesn't even cover the hardware cost let alone the massive ongoing cost of continually developing EAP.
Anyone who says software is "no cost" is kidding themselves, I'm betting the software investment dwarfs the cost of hardware, even when HW3 arrives.
Tesla is a business not a charity, hence the bundle and the bundle price.

It's also their responsibility to make the features compelling enough to warrant the cost, and priced in line with competition. Not having TACC by default is pretty egregious, but no one is asking for them to hand it out for free after the fact. I also don't see people in this thread saying that software is 'no cost,' they are saying that the fact that it is software alone means that the programs can be restructured with little to no cost to Tesla.

Ultimately, it's confusing and overly complex to have EAP and FSD options right now. I think that both options will have very low attach rates to the highest volume cars ($35k base model) and tesla will absolutely look at changing the offering to entice more buyers. If people use their wallets to tell tesla that all of EAP isn't worth $5k, but TACC is worth $1k, then they will have to change it to remain competitive.

 

[super20g]

I would give them a little money for TACC, but I am not interested in giving them 6K for EAP at the current time... I don't think people who would have normally purchased EAP for 5K would drop out and only get TACC separately if it was offered that way...

 

[TJtv]

What if they charged these prices(let's just talk pre-delivery prices to keep things simple):

The full EAP bundle they sell today - $5k
TACC only - $4k
Autosteer - $1k
Summon - $1k
Autopark - $1k

Would that satisfy you? Everyone(including Tesla) knows that TACC is the killer feature. You can't seriously expect them to give that away for $1.5k when they have a large quantity of people who are already willing to pony up $5k to essentially just get that.

 

[super20g]

What does TACC usually cost from other manufacturers? I would not pay 4K for TACC... But I am in minimal traffic where I would use it... If I was in long nasty city traffic, well I still wouldn't pay that but I am not a rich person.

 

[brobinson]

What if they charged these prices(let's just talk pre-delivery prices to keep things simple):

The full EAP bundle they sell today - $5k
TACC only - $4k
Autosteer - $1k
Summon - $1k
Autopark - $1k

Would that satisfy you? Everyone(including Tesla) knows that TACC is the killer feature. You can't seriously expect them to give that away for $1.5k when they have a large quantity of people who are already willing to pony up $5k to essentially just get that.

No, because while TACC is probably the most sought after option (probably because it's standard on many cars these days), $4k for that option alone is way out of line when compared to the competition. This is the main complaint of the current pricing. I know that this stuff isn't cost neutral to Tesla, but TACC is a feature that should be available at a reasonable cost on it's own, separate from the convenience features that are also a part of EAP.

 

[Robmil]

It is so interesting to see that many people talk about how good autosteering is and worth $5k. But in reality and from the way Tesla bundles this package, TACC is THE killing feature in this package at this point.

I also wish someday Tesla can separate them out because all I want is TACC. But I get the idea of bundling all these features together so Tesla can make more money and I actually think it is a good move for Tesla so they can have more people using AP (if selling TACC separately I believe the sale of autosteering will drop), have more data collected and improve the AP performance.

 

[MP3Mike]

The full EAP bundle they sell today - $5k
TACC only - $4k
Autosteer - $1k
Summon - $1k
Autopark - $1k

But you wouldn't be able to get Autosteer without TACC.

So maybe:
TACC only - $2.5k
Autosteer - $2.5k (requires TACC)
Summon - $1k
Autopark - $1k

 

[brobinson]

It is so interesting to see that many people talk about how good autosteering is and worth $5k. But in reality and from the way Tesla bundles this package, TACC is THE killing feature in this package at this point.

I also wish someday Tesla can separate them out because all I want is TACC. But I get the idea of bundling all these features together so Tesla can make more money and I actually think it is a good move for Tesla so they can have more people using AP (if selling TACC separately I believe the sale of autosteering will drop), have more data collected and improve the AP performance.

As I mentioned before, having EAP and FSD as separate bundles is confusing, but probably necessary given that FSD is not yet available. I can totally see Tesla re-aligning these features once FSD is available. That doesn't meant that the total overall cost will change, but where each feature lives might.

 

[Nocturnal]

If the purchase rate for EAP winds up being lower than they expect (I assume it may be) I would not be surprised to see them offer it at a sizable discount at some point. The hardware is already in our cars so the actual marginal cost of adding these features is very low, maybe some additional cell data and some more warranty stuff but that's it.

If they start having any cash flow problems that might be another trigger.

 

[MP3Mike]

No, because while TACC is probably the most sought after option (probably because it's standard on many cars these days),

But it also isn't standard on many cars. For example on the BMW 3 series they charge $1,200 for their ACC system. But it is less capable than Tesla's TACC.

Of course BMW charges $750 for parking sensors that Tesla includes at no cost. And then another $500 for blind spot detection, which Tesla will probably add at no cost via software. (The Tesla one will be lacking in my opinion because of the lack of lights in the side view mirrors.)

 

[brobinson]

But you wouldn't be able to get Autosteer without TACC.

So maybe:
TACC only - $2.5k
Autosteer - $2.5k (requires TACC)
Summon - $1k
Autopark - $1k

This is far more reasonable, but I think they would be more likely to separate TACC and keep the other 3 bundled as a convenience package.

$2.5k for TACC
$3.5k for convenience bundle

 

[Nocturnal]

But it also isn't standard on many cars. For example on the BMW 3 series they charge $1,200 for their ACC system. But it is less capable than Tesla's TACC.

Of course BMW charges $750 for parking sensors that Tesla includes at no cost. And then another $500 for blind spot detection, which Tesla will probably add at no cost via software. (The Tesla one will be lacking in my opinion because of the lack of lights in the side view mirrors.)

That is the only thing I miss from my last car. The lights on the mirrors for blind spot monitoring as an excellent piece of tech in my Highlander.

 

[MP3Mike]

This is far more reasonable, but I think they would be more likely to separate TACC and keep the other 3 bundled as a convenience package.

$2.5k for TACC
$3.5k for convenience bundle

But you don't get any discount for ordering the whole bundle. (Or penalty for ordering just select features.)

Unless you are saying that those are the at time of purchase prices, and you add $500 to each of them for the after purchase penalty. (While I didn't say it I priced my as having the after purchase penalty built in to them.)

 

[brobinson]

But you don't get any discount for ordering the whole bundle. (Or penalty for ordering just select features.)

Unless you are saying that those are the at time of purchase prices, and you add $500 to each of them for the after purchase penalty. (While I didn't say it I priced my as having the after purchase penalty built in to them.)

Fair point. Numbers aside, I think the point I'm getting to is that I feel like Tesla has plenty of options to get some incremental sales on these features and still convert more people to full EAP/FSD. They will get creative with it.

 

[daniel]

Obviously they are counting on TACC selling the package since it is really the killer feature that every car should have.

"Every car should have." YES! "THE killer feature." Nope.

It's also their responsibility to make the features compelling enough to warrant the cost, and priced in line with competition.

EAP is totally worth the cost. And there is no real competition. Not yet, anyway.

... Everyone(including Tesla) knows that TACC is the killer feature.

I bought EAP mostly because I wanted TACC. I didn't really trust autosteer. Took me a week to get up the courage to try it. I can now say categorically and without hesitation or doubt that autosteer is the killer feature, and TACC is just something that autosteer needs in order to work.

... I also wish someday Tesla can separate them out because all I want is TACC. ...

Heck, before you know it you won't be able to buy a car with a steering wheel. Autosteer is a small taste of the future. People who don't want autosteer are like kids who won't eat their broccoli: They just don't know what they're missing. If I'd had the option to "return" EAP for a refund after the first two weeks, I'd have done it. I'm sure glad that wasn't an option because even though it took me over a month to get comfortable with it, now that I am, I wish I'd had it a decade ago.

 

[brobinson]

EAP is totally worth the cost.

Value is not an objective thing. I've enjoyed AP during my trial. Hell, my commute is almost a perfect use case for it. But, it isn't worth an upfront payment of $6k for me. I would absolutely consider some of the options piecemeal, or even via subscription, but I can't see myself writing them a check for $6k for it right now. Maybe that changes in the future as the product matures.

 

[Msjulie]

If Tesla sold TACC on its own, say for $1000, maybe the majority of people would only buy that instead of the whole bundle.
Then Tesla loses money because $1K probably doesn't even cover the hardware cost let alone the massive ongoing cost of continually developing EAP.

They loose 5/6k from me because all I want is TACC - I wonder if volume purchase of TACC would end up being more than $0 from folks like me that just can't see spending that for driving features we don't want ...

 

[Robmil]

Autosteer is a small taste of the future. People who don't want autosteer are like kids who won't eat their broccoli: They just don't know what they're missing.

Autosteering is a just a "small taste" of the future because it is not mature yet. Even Tesla calls it a beta version. People can choose to be a beta tester or not and I choose not to at this point. It is not like saying I won't buy AP forever.

 

[RayW]

I firmly believe that they will change the offering after the $35k model has been in production for a while and/or FSD becomes available. They will want to drive sales if the conversion rate is low on the base model.

That could mean changing the items that are included in EAP vs FSD, offering a subscription, promotional financing, etc...

There are a number of ways that they can drive sales without the big upfront cost to buyers. They will come in time.

It will be tough selling a $8K EAP/FSD option to someone purchasing a $35K vehicle.

 

[JeffK]

It will be tough selling a $8K EAP/FSD option to someone purchasing a $35K vehicle.

here's a data point:
Ford F150 sells for $27,705 according to Google but the average transaction price is $40,171 according to Kelley Blue Book