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#441
Sorry for the cross-post, but it's appropriate here. Why is it that some here have turned Tesla into this evil company that is suddenly going to deny us coverage under the ESA when there is no evidence to support such a hypothesis? I would guess that the community's overall experience with Tesla would seem to go against the conclusions being drawn by some in this thread. Certainly my individual experience would not lead me to believe Tesla will suddenly start acting onerously.

RXLawdude, you are stating your position as if it is fact, but it is not. If you want to get lawyerly, then what specific evidence do you have that would lead you to believe Tesla is going to act this way? I would say that the way Tesla is treating the vast majority of owners contradicts your fear mongering. While I think Tesla should amend these documents, I see nothing in their actions that would lead me to believe they would act in the way you describe.

You go ahead and rely on your contracts. I'm going to rely on my relationship with Tesla and trust that they will take care of me. Their track record has been unsurpassed, and Tesla has gone out of its way many times to ensure my satisfaction. I have no concerns whatsoever in following the recommendations of my service center, whether that's in agreement with the ESA language or not.
 
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#444
rxlawdude said:
Did you have it serviced at 12,500 miles +/- 1,000? If not, repairs using your ESA may be denied.

Reiterating, Tesla must clarify its ESA and prepaid service language, and provide authoritative answers regarding how strictly (or not) they will enforce the requirement for 12,500 mile service intervals (or one year intervals), whichever come first, during the first 4 years/50,000 miles. (Warranty law prohibits denial of coverage merely by not following recommended service intervals; contract law that covers the ESA has no such consumer protections.)
Click to expand...

When I called the 1877 number the representative told me that I don't have to have any service done (although highly recommended every 12,500 miles) to be eligible to buy ESA.

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bhuwan said:
This thread scares me quite a bit, especially as I approach 50k miles in < 3 months. Is the warranty worth it for 2.5 years (approx amt of time before I hit another 50k miles)?
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This is my question...Agreed that service is required every 12500 miles but I drive a lot and I add 30,000 miles per year..My questions are:

Is it worth doing service 12,500 miles which means I have to have service done 2 times a year ($1200 in costs)
Even if I buy ESA then I will run out of it in 2 years time.
 
#445
If I got the ESA, I would plan to do the yearly service anyways but that would be about every 25K miles as that's about how much I'm driving it now. I was driving my Prius 40K miles and had planned to do the same with the Tesla, but it's not turning into quite as many miles as it was for the Prius. There are fewer places I'm willing to take the Tesla where I didn't even think twice about the Prius like the theater down town where our Lexus was vandalized so we don't park nice cars down there any more.

I do want to get the ESA. The exclusion list is quite minor. The $200 deductible sucks but it's probably not a deal killer. I plan to email the service manager at my local service center and ask her outright that if I buy the ESA and only bring in the car once a year regardless of mileage if it will invalidate the ESA. If I get it in writing from *some* company rep, then I'll roll the dice even though technically the email of a company employee doesn't modify the contract. I'm not convinced the contract is written in such a way that they could invalidate the warranty anyways.

Amped, I mostly agree with you. I think folks here just want a guarantee that if they pop for the ESA that they're not wasting their money....of course if nothing goes wrong during ESA coverage then they definitely did waste their money :)
 
#446
AmpedRealtor said:
Sorry for the cross-post, but it's appropriate here. Why is it that some here have turned Tesla into this evil company that is suddenly going to deny us coverage under the ESA when there is no evidence to support such a hypothesis? I would guess that the community's overall experience with Tesla would seem to go against the conclusions being drawn by some in this thread. Certainly my individual experience would not lead me to believe Tesla will suddenly start acting onerously.

RXLawdude, you are stating your position as if it is fact, but it is not. If you want to get lawyerly, then what specific evidence do you have that would lead you to believe Tesla is going to act this way? I would say that the way Tesla is treating the vast majority of owners contradicts your fear mongering. While I think Tesla should amend these documents, I see nothing in their actions that would lead me to believe they would act in the way you describe.

You go ahead and rely on your contracts. I'm going to rely on my relationship with Tesla and trust that they will take care of me. Their track record has been unsurpassed, and Tesla has gone out of its way many times to ensure my satisfaction. I have no concerns whatsoever in following the recommendations of my service center, whether that's in agreement with the ESA language or not.
Click to expand...
Amped, you needn't get personal. I resent your tone, because contract law is based on facts, and I have factually pointed out the contract terms in Tesla's own words. (You even posted the ESA language requiring service at the recommended intervals above!!)

The legal document is in plain English. Don't want to be surprised when that $4,000 display unit needs replacement under the ESA? Get your vehicle serviced every 12,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first. Want to take a chance that Tesla will be warm and fuzzy when the time comes to use that ESA? Please, go right ahead. Until I hear this officially and/or see a revision to the ESA and prepaid service policies, I certainly would not rely on their largess.

At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that is legally enforceable is the written contract. Yes, Tesla goes above and beyond, as evidenced by many owners' testimony. However, other owners have had SC personnel and managers tell them they must follow the documented policies. Our friend P-Dave has clearly outlined changes in the "freebies" he came to expect from Tesla. (Like suddenly having to pay to have his MS picked up for warranty work.)

Might they not look at your service history when your ESA is in force? Sure. But if they are attempting to cut costs and maximize revenue, you can bet that the freebies and loosey-goosey contract interpretations will diminish.

Finally, to clarify my "position," it's simply be wise and know what you're buying. I bought (and love!) my 70D with eyes wide open to the risks, warts, and FUN this company's products evoke. I also bought TSLA stock because I believe in the goals and accomplishments Tesla has made. The last thing I want is to see the company suffer bad press, but when a few vocal someones get surprised by the ESA terms being enforced, they will be up in arms, and I'm sure this discussion will reanimate itself.
 
#447
rxlawdude said:
Amped, you needn't get personal. I resent your tone, because contract law is based on facts, and I have factually pointed out the contract terms in Tesla's own words. (You even posted the ESA language requiring service at the recommended intervals above!!)

The legal document is in plain English. Don't want to be surprised when that $4,000 display unit needs replacement under the ESA? Get your vehicle serviced every 12,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first. Want to take a chance that Tesla will be warm and fuzzy when the time comes to use that ESA? Please, go right ahead. Until I hear this officially and/or see a revision to the ESA and prepaid service policies, I certainly would not rely on their largess.

At the end of the day, the ONLY thing that is legally enforceable is the written contract. Yes, Tesla goes above and beyond, as evidenced by many owners' testimony. However, other owners have had SC personnel and managers tell them they must follow the documented policies. Our friend P-Dave has clearly outlined changes in the "freebies" he came to expect from Tesla. (Like suddenly having to pay to have his MS picked up for warranty work.)

Might they not look at your service history when your ESA is in force? Sure. But if they are attempting to cut costs and maximize revenue, you can bet that the freebies and loosey-goosey contract interpretations will diminish.

Finally, to clarify my "position," it's simply be wise and know what you're buying. I bought (and love!) my 70D with eyes wide open to the risks, warts, and FUN this company's products evoke. I also bought TSLA stock because I believe in the goals and accomplishments Tesla has made. The last thing I want is to see the company suffer bad press, but when a few vocal someones get surprised by the ESA terms being enforced, they will be up in arms, and I'm sure this discussion will reanimate itself.
Click to expand...

There was nothing personal in my above post, I'm sorry you feel that way. I do feel that you are engaging in a bit of fear mongering, that is just my opinion/observation and not intended to be personal. I think you are painting Tesla in an unfavorable light by implying they would go back on their word and on statements they have made to thousands of owners. This would require them to behave in a rather reprehensible manner. I don't think you are being fair to Tesla.

Regarding P_D at TM Forums, Tesla offered him free services that the written roadside assistance policy did not cover. That's like Tesla providing you lunch during your service appointment, only to be upset they didn't buy you lunch the next time. That is a completely different situation than we are discussing here. We are not being given any free services above what is specified, nor is anyone expecting such.
 
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#448
AmpedRealtor said:
Agreed. I think it's good advice to ask for all appropriate service bulletins to be applied and for things like windshield/condensation design issues to be rectified before expiration of the 50,000 mile warranty. At my next annual service in a few days, I'm going to mention things like the chirping AC fans and the new appliqué. I want to make sure I get every update for which I'm eligible prior to my warranty expiring. I only have 30,000 miles but they go by very quickly! :)
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Finally someone else with "chirping" AC fans. The Scottsdale SC had my car for a couple of days before they finally said they could hear it. They couldn't source the part to perform the repair but told me that they would schedule me as soon as they could get it. That was about 2-3 months ago.
 
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#449
strengthcoach4 said:
Finally someone else with "chirpy" AC fans. The Scottsdale SC had my car for a couple of days before they finally said they could hear it. They couldn't source the part to perform the repair but told me that they would schedule me as soon as they could get it. That was about 2-3 months ago.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that Tesla has sourced new fans and that the chirp/squeak is a bearing issue. I guess I'll find out in a couple of days! :)
 
#451
rxlawdude said:
Amped, you needn't get personal. I resent your tone, because contract law is based on facts, and I have factually pointed out the contract terms in Tesla's own words. (You even posted the ESA language requiring service at the recommended intervals above!!)

The legal document is in plain English. Don't want to be surprised when that $4,000 display unit needs replacement under the ESA? Get your vehicle serviced every 12,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first. Want to take a chance that Tesla will be warm and fuzzy when the time comes to use that ESA? Please, go right ahead. Until I hear this officially and/or see a revision to the ESA and prepaid service policies, I certainly would not rely on their largess.
Click to expand...

I'm just curious, are you a contract lawyer? You say tesla has spelled out in words what is required. It says you must be bring the car in every 12,500 miles or 12 months but it doesn't say for what. You don't find this a problem? You think this is clear wording and not ambiguous? Really??????
 
#452
sorka said:
I'm just curious, are you a contract lawyer? You say tesla has spelled out in words what is required. It says you must be bring the car in every 12,500 miles or 12 months but it doesn't say for what. You don't find this a problem? You think this is clear wording and not ambiguous? Really??????
Click to expand...
No, I'm not a "contract lawyer," but I've negotiated and written multi-million dollar IT contracts and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Seriously, I don't get your confusion. The prepaid service agreement specifically states "No person has theauthority to change this Agreement or to waive any of its provisions."

The ESA states "No person has theauthority to change this Vehicle ESA or to waive any of its provisions." Under "Your Responsibilities," the ESA states "To maintain the validity of this Vehicle ESA, You must follow correct operationsprocedures and have Your Vehicle serviced as recommended by Tesla. If requested, proof of requiredservice, including receipts showing date and mileage of the Vehicle at the time of service, must bepresented before any repairs under this Vehicle ESA commence. Service within 1,000 miles and/or 30days of Tesla’s recommended intervals shall be considered compliant with the terms of this Vehicle ESA."

I'm not sure why you're grasping at straws when it's in black and white. If you were my client I'd tell you what I'm telling you - you can believe that Tesla goodwill and fairy dust will magically eliminate the plain language of the agreement, or you can follow the provisions of the contract. Your choice.

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AmpedRealtor said:
There was nothing personal in my above post, I'm sorry you feel that way. I do feel that you are engaging in a bit of fear mongering, that is just my opinion/observation and not intended to be personal. I think you are painting Tesla in an unfavorable light by implying they would go back on their word and on statements they have made to thousands of owners. This would require them to behave in a rather reprehensible manner. I don't think you are being fair to Tesla.

Regarding P_D at TM Forums, Tesla offered him free services that the written roadside assistance policy did not cover. That's like Tesla providing you lunch during your service appointment, only to be upset they didn't buy you lunch the next time. That is a completely different situation than we are discussing here. We are not being given any free services above what is specified, nor is anyone expecting such.
Click to expand...
How am I painting Tesla into an unfavorable light by pointing out the terms of their contract, which is the only legal talisman you or any other owner will have when there is a disagreement over coverage?

And I have repeatedly stated that Tesla should publicly clarify (and make corresponding changes to the ESA, maintenance schedule, and pre-paid maintenance contracts) whether they will in fact honor the ESA when an owner drives, say, 20,000 miles a year and brings it in once a year for the $600 "annual service," and ignored the 12,500 mile interval. The fact they currently go beyond what they are legally bound to do is not indicative of any future action.

Believe me, I want to buy the ESA, but I drive 22-24K miles a year, and plan to have it serviced annually (regardless of the odo reading). I'm not about to send $4,000 down the toilet in reliance of Tesla being nice and ignoring their own written policy.

Lastly, those getting gratis services in contravention to Tesla's written policies are in exactly the same boat as P-Dave. And yes, I'd equate the complaints he has as analogous to not getting a free lunch that he used to get. In other words, if you didn't maintain the vehicle per recommendations, they won't fix it for "free" under the ESA (more precisely, for the $200 "incident" deductible). :)
 
#453
rxlawdude said:
No, I'm not a "contract lawyer," but I've negotiated and written multi-million dollar IT contracts and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

Seriously, I don't get your confusion. The prepaid service agreement specifically states "No person has theauthority to change this Agreement or to waive any of its provisions."

The ESA states "No person has theauthority to change this Vehicle ESA or to waive any of its provisions." Under "Your Responsibilities," the ESA states "To maintain the validity of this Vehicle ESA, You must follow correct operationsprocedures and have Your Vehicle serviced as recommended by Tesla. If requested, proof of requiredservice, including receipts showing date and mileage of the Vehicle at the time of service, must bepresented before any repairs under this Vehicle ESA commence. Service within 1,000 miles and/or 30days of Tesla’s recommended intervals shall be considered compliant with the terms of this Vehicle ESA."

I'm not sure why you're grasping at straws when it's in black and white. If you were my client I'd tell you what I'm telling you - you can believe that Tesla goodwill and fairy dust will magically eliminate the plain language of the agreement, or you can follow the provisions of the contract. Your choice.

-
Click to expand...

But you're not actually answering the question. It says you need to bring your car into tesla at 12,500 or 12 month intervals, but it doesn't say for what. I'm not sure why you think this means I'm grasping for straws.

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rxlawdude said:
And I have repeatedly stated that Tesla should publicly clarify (and make corresponding changes to the ESA, maintenance schedule, and pre-paid maintenance contracts) whether they will in fact honor the ESA when an owner drives, say, 20,000 miles a year and brings it in once a year for the $600 "annual service," and ignored the 12,500 mile interval. The fact they currently go beyond what they are legally bound to do is not indicative of any future action.
Click to expand...

I think we all agree that Tesla should clarify the policy :)
 
#454
Words on paper have never stopped a dishonest company from cheating someone. Tesla has continually done the right thing (albeit sometimes a bit of prodding was required). Until there is evidence to the contrary, I'll expect Tesla to continue to do the right thing.
 
#455
jerry33 said:
Words on paper have never stopped a dishonest company from cheating someone. Tesla has continually done the right thing (albeit sometimes a bit of prodding was required). Until there is evidence to the contrary, I'll expect Tesla to continue to do the right thing.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, I continue to wait for Tesla to "do the right thing" on the problems I've had with my car that they, thus far, have said they will not cover under warranty. My opinion of Tesla has gone down since becoming an owner, not gone up.
 
#457
sorka said:
But you're not actually answering the question. It says you need to bring your car into tesla at 12,500 or 12 month intervals, but it doesn't say for what. I'm not sure why you think this means I'm grasping for straws.
Click to expand...

I'm curious what else other than service you think it could mean if not service?

Service within 1,000 miles and/or 30days of Tesla’s recommended intervals shall be considered compliant
Click to expand...
 
#460
rxlawdude said:
Lastly, those getting gratis services in contravention to Tesla's written policies are in exactly the same boat as P-Dave. And yes, I'd equate the complaints he has as analogous to not getting a free lunch that he used to get. In other words, if you didn't maintain the vehicle per recommendations, they won't fix it for "free" under the ESA (more precisely, for the $200 "incident" deductible). :)
Click to expand...

I fail to follow your logic. There is no "free" service under the ESA because we paid for said ESA. The gentleman you are referring to at TM Forums complained that once Tesla paid for towing his car a great distance to a service center several hundred miles away when the 2nd time they charged him outside of the policy's 40 mile radius. The roadside assistance written policy requires customer payment for distance in excess of 40 miles. So Tesla did give him free service above and beyond what he was entitled to under the policy, and the 2nd time they gave him what was promised under the written policy and no more. Nothing was taken away, as you are suggesting Tesla will do by denying us all ESA coverage. Also, roadside assistance is included with every purchase and is not an additional purchase like the ESA. Tesla's relaxing its service guidelines is not analogous to getting free services that are not included in the ESA. That is what P_D received - monetary value above and beyond what was included. We are not receiving anything of monetary value here when Tesla relaxes its service interval policies.

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gizmoboy said:
Accusing someone of fear mongering is personal.
Click to expand...

I disagree. it's an observation of behavior, not a judgment of the person. It's like saying something I said was hypocritical. I wouldn't take that personally. But if you were to call me a hypocrite, or I RXLawdude a fear-mongerer, then yes, that could be perceived as personal. :)
 
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