Owners Sue Tesla over Enhanced AP

[NerdUno]

Tesla set the expectation for December, 2016. Once the facts have been uncovered, I think the evidence will show that they knew full well that they were not going to deliver AP2.ANYTHING in December, 2016. That would constitute misrepresentation where I come from.

 

[Tam]

...Tesla set the expectation...

Tesla has been assigning owners an "expected" delivery date which many complained about its inaccuracy. They can sue but I don't think they will have a case.

It's a contract of expectation not a contract of concrete facts.

 

[BestRadar]

Tesla has been assigning owners an "expected" delivery date which many complained about its inaccuracy. They can sue but I don't think they will have a case.

It's a contract of expectation not a contract of concrete facts.

At this point its in the courts and a Jury Trial is requested so it will be up to the courts and a Jury to decide if Tesla was deceitful. My gut tells me Tesla needs to take this seriously and stop over promising on what it can and cannot deliver in a reasonable period of time.

 

[riemannh]

This is from paragraph 87 with my emphasis added:



The Plaintiffs really expect us to believe there are thousands of AP2.0 owners who will join this class when 91% of people who own a Tesla would by another one?

It will be interesting to watch.

In retrospect, because of the delay, I wouldn't have ordered FSD when I ordered my car.

I had the expectation that EAP would be further along when I received the vehicle (I ordered when it had the Dec. 2016 language). In the end, this EAP delay pushed me away from a purchase of the vehicle and to a lease for several reasons:

1. I worry, now, that it will be announce that my AP2 vehicle does not, in fact, have the necessary HW for FSD (e.g. it will be found LIDAR just can't be avoided) or that the roll-out will have multi-year delays (e.g. 2020 for FSD, as many manufacturers are projecting),
2. I worry that these ongoing over-promise/under-deliver issues will impact Tesla so severely with the M3 launch that they will need to reorganize and may end up dumping warranty obligations (i.e. ch11), or
3. I wonder if better SD technology may be developed by a competitor with a reasonable EV/HEV vehicle on a faster timeline (e.g. Audi - not that they haven't had their own honesty issues).

I also looked into other insurance (e.g. buying put options to cover the est. residual after three years given a Ch 11 event). Because I ended up deciding to lease, the lack of EAP and FSD eats at me a bit more as I perceive that I'm paying for the depreciation of an asset I was never delivered (granted, maybe to actually get EAP to market in December, the car may have cost more up-front, so this discount may be built in?).

Despite all of this, I would order today if I didn't already have the vehicle and I had the foreknowledge of this experience... again, I just wouldn't have purchased the FSD option and I probably would have planned on leasing (I may have waited on EAP or considered a CPO with AP1, too).

All of this is to say, I don't think it's impossible for people to feel like they are "owed" a refund (or reduction in lease-price) for a product not delivered and, yet, be satisfied with the vehicle as a whole. NOT the whole car, just the undelivered/under-delivered parts of the vehicle.

I don't know how many others feel like I do, so I make no claims regarding the "thousands" assertion. Just that I can imagine that there may be a big overlap in the Venn Diagram of (Would buy again ( dissatisfied with EAP/FSD timeline ) Want partial/full refund ).

EDIT: I suppose it could be argued that I had the chance to forego taking delivery by forfeiting my deposit. Maybe it would be a reasonable argument by Tesla to say that that, the deposit amount, is their maximum liability in the lawsuit?

 

[bhzmark]

Tesla will release ‘Automatic Emergency Braking’ feature on cars with Autopilot 2.0 hardware this week

Prediction:
Updates fully implement Eap. No future injury. No basis for injunctive relief. Takes out Rule 23b2 basis for class.

The extent to which each buyer relied on various websites, videos, salesperson statements are individualized issues that predominate over common ones. Takes out Rule 23b3 basis for class cert.

No standing. Motion to dismiss granted.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla will release ‘Automatic Emergency Braking’ feature on cars with Autopilot 2.0 hardware this week

Prediction:
Updates fully implement Eap. No future injury. No basis for injunctive relief. Takes out Rule 23b2 basis for class.

The extent to which each buyer relied on various websites, videos, salesperson statements are individualized issues that predominate over common ones. Takes out Rule 23b3 basis for class cert.

No standing. Motion to dismiss granted.

I suspect they may amend their complaint to talk about compensation for the time between December 2016 and when a given feature was released. The original complaint was already outdated when it was filed given some of the features said missing were already rolled out, so I think they will have to amend regardless. This just adds another feature to the list.

 

[malcolm]

This just adds another feature to the list.

aaannnnnndd more money for all those lawyers.

Everyone* is happy.

*the important people.

 

[PAULL]

... So AFTER the Extinction Event, are threads like this how we humans are to be discovered??
[shaking head]

 

[AWDtsla]

... So AFTER the Extinction Event, are threads like this how we humans are to be discovered??
[shaking head]

"Only one company was poised to stop the imminent extinction event. Unfortunately they were still comprised of stupid humans, who with the finish line in sight effectively tripped over their own shoelaces because of the endless stream of unnecessary exaggerated claims. Turns out humans were always doomed to be extinct"

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Do you AP2 guys have Auto Emergency Braking yet?

Yes. 17.11.45 added it for me on 4/26/17.

 

[AWDtsla]

Tesla's New Automatic Emergency Braking System Limited To 28 MPH

LOL. Fooled again! The car should be passive safe at 28 mph anyway.

 

[BestRadar]

Tesla's New Automatic Emergency Braking System Limited To 28 MPH

LOL. Fooled again! The car should be passive safe at 28 mph anyway.

That is a joke.. I am so tired of these partial updates.

 

[MS16]

Good for Consumer Reports for calling out Tesla and their sketchy lack of transparency.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Ive been pretty passive around here lately, but I have to comment on these things. This is part of the turn off of Tesla. At some point, you have to back up the promises you make. You can get away with it for a while when you have a few thousand loyalists, but what happens if it is 100,000? Or with the Model 3, 500,000? People are pretty forgiving but not for long. If the Model 3 has issues and you aren't servicing them as quickly as ford/gm/etc then you will have serious problems.

I saw an article where Musk was on Ted Talks apparently saying that Tesla AP will be able to go from NY to LA by the end of 2017....
cmon... just stop that. Did he also say *but you have to keep your hands on the wheels the entire time*? Probably not. Ugh.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I just wish people could be more patient.... I understand it is frustrating to wait for technology to develop, but no one can argue that Tesla is not doing everything in their power to advance new features are fast as possible. Have their been some bumps in the road.... yes, with there be more.... probably, will Tesla come through in the end... definitely. Buying cutting edge technology has always been a little risky.

 

[Tangible]

Buying cutting edge technology has always been a little risky.

Yes, but in many areas Tesla has now fallen far behind the cutting edge. Fully functional AEB can be found on a dozen car brands. Most luxury brands now offer better adaptive cruise control and lane keeping. And rain sensing wipers? That's been around for decades.

Despite all the complaints about lack of transparency Tesla continues to issue misleading statements, such as the one that AEB is rolling out this week, without mentioning that it's in a useless crippled state. If they want owners to feel like partners in a great experiment they need to start showing us some respect.

 

[Tam]

...*but you have to keep your hands on the wheels the entire time*...

Please be advised there is a difference between

1) Autopilot (a licensed person is required) vs Autonomous (no human required)

2) Demonstration vs public finished product.

"Musk says that Tesla is on track for completing a fully autonomous, cross-country LA to New York trip by the end of 2017. “November or December of this year, we should be able to go from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York, no controls touched at any point during the entire journey,” Musk says."

The above date is a planned demonstration.

That demonstration could be successful or unsuccessful, then you can plan about a public release after that.

 

[daktari]

I orderered a new, EAP and FSD car late november 2016 with expectations of Enhanced-AP, not inferior-AP. I could have gotten a discounted inventory AP1 for a lot less, but I skipped PUP, leather etc and waited 3 extra months for the deliverey of a car with the Enhanced AP.
And remember, in november, not even the sales person here had driven AP2.

Paid more, got less - because of false advertising.

 

[NerdUno]

Perhaps the AP1 folks just can't relate to AP2 cars. So let's switch to beach houses. Suppose a builder approached you and showed you a video of a beautiful beach house with all the features you'd been looking for in a resort property. The developer went on to say he expected to complete construction in 2 months, December 2016. The only catch was you had to pay for the beach house sight unseen. Lo and behold you find out the developer hasn't even broken ground in December. And then word leaks out that you're actually going to get a log cabin... someday. And you have to run out back to go to the bathroom even though the video showed a working toilet in the beach house. And, by the way, the kitchen appliances won't work at the outset because the builder is waiting on electric and gas permits from the city. But the builder expects the smoke alarms to work fine during daylight hours anyway. And the solar roof should be available soon but, in the meantime, the developer has offered a tarp to throw over the top of the cabin to keep everyone dry. Did we mention that we've learned that the three main construction guys have all quit, but the developer has hired a new guy from Apple that's gonna fix everything. Get it now, fanboys?

 

[Bgarret]

Perhaps the AP1 folks just can't relate to AP2 cars. So let's switch to beach houses. Suppose a builder approached you and showed you a video of a beautiful beach house with all the features you'd been looking for in a resort property. The developer went on to say he expected to complete construction in 2 months, December 2016. The only catch was you had to pay for the beach house sight unseen. Lo and behold you find out the developer hasn't even broken ground in December. And then word leaks out that you're actually going to get a log cabin... someday. And you have to run out back to go to the bathroom even though the video showed a working toilet in the beach house. And, by the way, the kitchen appliances won't work at the outset because the builder is waiting on electric and gas permits from the city. But the builder expects the smoke alarms to work fine during daylight hours anyway. And the solar roof should be available soon but, in the meantime, the developer has offered a tarp to throw over the top of the cabin to keep everyone dry. Did we mention that we've learned that the three main construction guys have all quit, but the developer has hired a new guy from Apple that's gonna fix everything. Get it now, fanboys?

Ok....let's reason by analogy.

Suppose a builder approached you and showed you a video of a beautiful beach house with all the features you'd been looking for in a resort property. The developer went on to say he expected to complete construction in 2 months, December 2016. The only catch was you had to pay for the beach house sight unseen. Lo and behold you tour the completed beach house in December and it looks perfect. The landscaping is tasteful and has "curb appeal". The inside is modern and tastefully appointed with all the newest technology. The view from the balconies is spectacular. You are so pleased at how clean and quiet it is - every beach house you have owned before this had to be heated with a coal-fired boiler, and the lack of noise and stench is refreshing. As you are completing your tour through your new beach house the builder shows you the kitchen. It was supposed to be fully automated, with food moving automatically from the refrigerator to the stove top, cooking itself, and then the dishes magically whisked to the dishwasher. It's a new system, and the builder explains that so the house doesn't catch on fire or the dishes break, they are bringing up the system one section at a time.

AND YOU LOSE YOUR MIND! You can't see the view, the "curb appeal", the ocean....you start yelling at the builder, cursing him, threatening lawsuits and public shame. He tries to reason with you, to tell you the kitchen still works and they are working hard to have the system work together, but you can still cook food and the automatic dishwasher works. "I AM NOT A RUBE!" you scream. "I WILL LIVE HERE UNTIL IT IS FIXED, BUT I WILL HATE IT!" You are aware that the builder is the only reason there are even houses on this part of the ocean, likely the only reason the ocean won't rise up and cover this part of the beach....BUT THE AUTOMATIC KITCHEN DOESN"T WORK! I HAVE BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF! So you decide to walk the beach neighborhood to get everyone to sign a petition against the builder, but most other people seem to be enjoying their beach houses, playing with their families, enjoying life. So you yell at them from the street, "BLIND FANBOYS! YOU ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF, AND YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW IT!" and one by one, the other beach residents lower their shades and turn up the music on their sound system...and ignore you.

As I will now do...may you some day enjoy your beach house, your view and your automated kitchen.