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P100D Salvage in England

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Jagman1961, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    Hi to all at Teslamotorsclub. I've been reading posts on here about the Model X and members' problems getting any help or parts from Tesla with salvage vehicles ever since I bought a category 'S' ( UK term for structurally damaged repairable ) P100D a couple of weeks ago.
    Yes I know - I should have read the posts BEFORE buying it - but over here any Teslas on the repair/salvage scene are very rare and I had been looking into doing an EV conversion of a Jaguar V12 XKE and was aware of the values of battery and motor units.
    Anyway the vehicle looked very fixable, I bought the vehicle and had it delivered. Only to then find a 'legal looking' notice from no less than Tesla Motors Inc. Stating the vehicle to be a 'total loss' and that it would have to be put through Teslas approved body repair scheme to be 'redeemed' - yet ,it then states that "being an unsupported vehicle neither Tesla nor Tesla approved bodyshops are to supply parts or services to such vehicles ! Catch 22 ?
    This was annoying because it was addressed to the salvage auction who I'd bought it off and the last line of the notice does say "you are required to give a copy of this notice to any subsequent purchaser of the vehicle" - well they did, only they put no mention of this in the auction details and I found the notice screwed into a ball , stuffed under the back of the drivers seat! So I guess they can claim they 'gave' a copy to the new owner.
    I will attach a copy of this if anyone hasn't seen this notice, and if it's OK to do so.
    Ok I've looked the car over and removed a few damaged parts to assess the damage and it looks pretty straight forward mechanically.
    Then I contacted Tesla UK Who gave me their approved bodyshops number - as soon as I gave them the license number that was it - No talking to salvage owners - end of !
    Ok I've read enough to understand the position re- Tesla and not wanting 3rd party bodged cars bringing their good name into disrepute and accept that.
    I will just state that in England at least , if Tesla vehicles are total losses for so little damage then I can't see insurers touching them with a greased barge pole in the near future - and insurance is pretty expensive anyway over here!
    The decision now is a) break the beautiful new car into pieces and probably get more than I paid for it. B) take up the challenge, inspired by threads on this site by others facing similar technical problems and put it back on the road. C) demand my money back - claiming non disclosure of the Tesla notice.
    Personally I would like to put the car back on the road - but I'm open to guidance from members here.
    Thanks Jagman1961
     
    • Like x 1
  2. Sandiegodoug

    Sandiegodoug Member

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    Take up the challenge and fix it.
     
  3. rocketshipp85

    rocketshipp85 Member

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    Try to fix it. It will be well worth it afterwards.
     
  4. Tiger

    Tiger Active Member

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  5. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    How much did you pay versus what the non-salvage worth is?

    Taking that delta, how much money and time are you willing to spend to take the -chance- you can get it on the road? How much of this work can you do yourself versus outsourcing?

    Every economic decision to me comes down to the Uber test.

    If I became a taxi and drove people around, would I make more in the same period of time as my 'opportunity cost' when considering a particular economic activity?

    Being in the UK I imagine would also put you at a tremendous disadvantage for locating knowledge, skills, abilities, and parts for self Tesla service.
     
  6. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    Good morning - thanks Sandiegodoug, Rocketshipp85,Tiger and MXWing - I wasn't sure I'd posted this correctly.
    A good Model X P100D goes for £85 to £90 thousand pounds, I paid £33 thousand plus auction fees and delivery.
    It's got 10,200 miles on the clock and is a March 2017 registration so all undo aged components are in nearly new condition.
    I have a restoration company making chassis and bodies for XKE's and MG T-series and twenty years ago used to produce our own MG TF replica sports car , which was type approved (crash tested all approved - not kits) so the bodywork and paint will be in house.
    Looking at the damage it is entirely on the passenger (USA drivers ) side front suspension , it appears a tree leapt out and took the headlight,front wheel,suspension upright and fender with it. It did not however damage the main chassis rails or distort them so all items of suspension are 'bolt on' and source able from Polish breakers.
    The interior has of course gone into self destruct mode and just about every airbag I think there is , plus seat belt tensioner, has deployed.
    I think my plan is to determine how the vehicle is electronically/electrically first , before I spend a penny on parts. All wiring is intact with the exception of the front bumper light cluster, so all cameras, indicators and lights should plug back in and shut down most of the fault messages right?
    I've read up on the charging problems after airbag deployment and that's the first problem I need to solve - currently I have 3% main battery power, the 12v battery was disconnected when it arrived and the intact first responder loop taped to the steering wheel.
    After replacing loop and reconnecting 12v negative terminal everything lit up ok but things soon shut down with current drain and I learnt to keep charger attached to enable systems to be explored.
    As it stands now I can't get any charge ( granny lead ) into it and it would appear the main battery HV contractors are disabled for good safety reasons, I've just read an excellent thread where Ingineer explains the system and fuses that I will check in the morning - if I can get the contractors working then I'm sure I can save the car - it has no damage to any components other than the suspension.
    Just going to look at the 'Tips and advice' now - Thanks
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Sandiegodoug

    Sandiegodoug Member

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    Maybe post your progress and some pictures from time to time. A long time ago a friend had a Jaguar xke convertible, 12cylinder. Beautiful car, but constantly over heating. Good luck
     
  8. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    Here's an idea of the damage - first from the salvage website, second in my workshop with fender removed. image.jpg image.jpeg ;
     
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  9. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    image.jpeg That was never a problem in the UK with the V12 - it never gets as hot and sunny as San Diego ! The V12 bonnet (hood) is the same overall size but with larger radiator inlet then the series ones ( 3.8 and 4.2 engines ) so always limited cooling.
    I'm going to post photo's as I progress and tomorrow at work where the car is I will run through a few fuse tests to see if I can get the thing charging at least - that's a major priority.
    At least it's not a water damaged car, but you never can tell what an impact may dislodge or short, even though this one appears to have had the force glancing sideways or deflecting rather than a head on crumple.
    One thing I've noticed about the materials used in both the structure and panel work of the Model X is how light, brittle and unyielding it is.
    The impact knocked the front door back just enough to chip against the top of the falcon wing rear door and a 4mm square has pinged out of the falcon door , the door gaps returned back to normal after impact.
    The brackets fixing the fender , where bent can't be reformed to their original position - they crack and break along the fold line.
    Spot welds have mostly failed - eg simply parted at the join rather than pulling material from one side and leaving a hole on one component or the other as is usually the case, perhaps this is different on these alloys?
    Playing with the destroyed fender is the same - it can't be re formed or beaten back to shape as some aluminium alloys can be.
    The last point is that a fair amount of large scale die casting is used in the front suspension turret structure and this is very brittle, the way this is integrated to the chassis structure makes repairs a whole lot more interesting.
    I will post more photos tomorrow if anyone's interested.
    Nearly forgot - my friend has a Model S P85 with front end damage (airbags deployed) which he bought a week or so before I bought mine, we both have the same non charging issues - he's bought parts from Tesla UK as well as eBay and Poland.
    The vehicles are a half mile from. Each other so we will pool resources and information.
    Thanks
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  10. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    Ok I've plugged the brake line and refilled the fluid reservoir so at least the brake system light is off. I've tried again to get it to charge but its not engaging the solenoids/contactors - does anyone know if the airbag module has to be replaced and reset before anything is enabled - am I on the right part of the forum for technical stuff? Thanks
     
  11. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    In checking the fuses F125 has blown - 10A one, I'm just going to swap it for a new one and see if it blows again. I have no paperwork or manual so dont know what this one controls.
    What's the pyro fuse actually do - it only appears to have two small guage wires connected to it and the two 'trigger' wires on top. Mine shows no continuity and connecting a 12v stop lamp bulb accross it doesn't alter anything.
    Have found the onboard manual and referenced the doors - though the rear drivers side won't powere up or down - perhaps airbag obstructing sensor? the other side has had the deployed airbag cut away and works without the three bleeps. But then that side hasn't been lightly nudged by the impact. Thoughts anyone???
     
  12. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg OK - some progress today - I've managed to get three of the four doors opening and closing , and also found the little bicycle brake inner cable thing which lurks beneath the door loudspeaker panel - the thing you pull to manually open the Falcon door ! Though finding this in a darkened, powerless post accident wreck will be challenging to say the least!(Mental note - attach these cables to a nice bright red nylon tape the same as they have for manually opening the Frunk - and lead tape ends to somewhere handy - eg arm rest pockets?)
    Now there's a thought - how would you get out the rear and rear most seats in a hurry - in my early work inside the car I'd charged the 12V battery and climbed inside to play with the rear seats only for the battery to die on me in 5 mins flat - remember this car is 'post airbag deployed' and so it's main battery is isolated and DC/DC not charging the 12V.
    The front seats were reclined enough for me to clamber over and of course the front doors open on the normal interior pull handle to release the catch and can be forced open.
    I now have a 12 volt charger connected to the battery when working otherwise you can never keep the car 'alive' for more than 3 to 5 mins at a time , depending on what you're fiddling with.
    Lastly here's a photo of the pieces of door which chipped at the top corner of the Falcon door and it's door handle - odd sort of alloy material ( unobtainium ? ) , I can't see me bashing the front edge of the front door back to shape with this stuff ! Better put a door on my shopping list just in case.
     
    • Like x 2
  13. 1208

    1208 Active Member

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    Good luck with the salvage, hope you can repair it and get it back on the road. To be honest I have seen a lot worse, defiantly think its doable from what I can see, not an expert mind.

    I always thought of getting a salvage one.

    Might help to meet or see other Tesla X's in your area to see what should go where etc.

    I know in Kent where I am I have only seen 1 X quite a few S's.

    Have you thought of posting video updates on youtube, you might be able to get wider audience of people who can help particularly the UK.
     
  14. Jays200

    Jays200 Member

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    Keep the pics coming pls. Going to be interesting.

    Not sure if you've come across the "Car Guru". Here is his Youtube channel

    Car Guru

    He has "re-birthed" a Tesla or two and has a great sense of humour combined with some great info and links.

    Get those contactors closed and that main pack charged ASAP ;)
     
  15. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    image.jpeg image.jpg Here are photos of the Falcon door manual release wires and the red straps for the Frunk - which allow external access to the Frunk "Sod the Kids - let's save the luggage" ?

    Thanks 1208 and Jays200 spurred into action this morning by your comments I got to work early and ... IT Lives ! Ok some progress this morning - by putting a 21W bulb across the pyro fuse (temp measure whilst I source a new pyro) and replacing 10A F125 things behaved differently . I've shoved the Falcon wing door which was misbehaving down and messing with the referencing on this and the other doors all the doors open (showing yellow on the dash display ) have gone.
    I suppose it won't let you drive with doors open or ajar anyway ?
    Here's a pic of the falcon door release for those who may need it - and I can tell you it's a Bum Clencher of a task pulling the retaining clips out of their sockets - every one of which makes a horribly expensive snapping sound !
    The release is that tiny thin wire with the drum end similar to a gear change cable on a bicycle.
    Ok - next step is to see how to get some charge into those main battery packs, at least the contactors must be closing to engage drive - Right??? So all logic has been achieved or bypassed to get the 'Brain' to allow this.
    Next thing is to see whether 'Supercharging dissabled' means just Tesla's supercharging or my charge port !
    I've always been able to open the charge port but the catch which prevents the plug being inserted and which should release when you push the charge button has never clicked and this of course links to the main contacts closing to allow charge to get to the (HV) battery pack.
    I'm waiting for friend to bring my Granny cable back to see if/how to get it charging.
    I've seen Car Guru - great fun and very informative, EVTV also a great source of info as well as Ingineer (most helpful of all on specifics) I don't think I'm up to their standards of presentation though but will try and put helpful things on here for others - anyone who needs to see where things go whilst mine is in bits just ask.
    I'm encouraged to go shopping now for all the expensive mechanical 'Bolt On' lumps which will allow me to use my new found "Drive" modes ! Anyone got a complete near side front suspension set up ????
    Looks like service repaired light dented bonnets (hoods) and wings (fenders) as well as front spoilers are cheapest in UK but for all the other parts I'm going to have to get my man in Warsaw to speak to his compatriots.
    Oh one last image - 'driving' at 3 mph with one wheel missing - a first for Tesla posts yes?
    image.jpeg
     
    • Like x 3
  16. lymex2018

    lymex2018 Member

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    Fuse F125 is the "Contactor Power", type MICRO2 ----- from the 2015 Model S wiring, sheet Energy System - Charger Logic Connections.
    F125.png
     
    • Informative x 2
  17. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    Thankyou lymex2018 for the wiring diagram - that makes sense as all the reponder loop/isolator circuit is like an emergency stop line on a machine or conveyor belt , they are switches in series so all have to be closed to make the circuit and enable the system. Have you anything showing the Pyro fuse? I'm just interested in whether it is a link which is broken by the actuating wires in the top or a current tripping relay. Thanks
     
  18. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    Warning - if you've only 3 wheels on your Model X and its sat in your factory AND you think " This is Too quiet to really be running or driving" then DON'T hit the accelerator ! it may go nowhere ,you may have only tapped the throttle but you do 0 to 64 MPH in 0.3 seconds and braking does diddly because there's no brake on the missing wheel to slow it's missing drive shaft ! For your information it takes about 40 seconds to slow down to an indicated zero MPH. Dumb me. At least is hasn't real 4x4 and couldn't launch me through the workshop wall. Next time? Still very quiet though and smooth too.
     
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  19. Jagman1961

    Jagman1961 Member

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    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg The last concern was charging of any type as the HV battery was down to 1% after a very short running of the motors (5 mins) so I was relieved when my friend returned the granny flex and it plugged straight in once the charging port opened . I had been listening for a second click when pressing the open port but perhaps this happens simultaneously with the flap opening or maybe the York bridging bulb messes the sequence up, either way it's charging at a Whopping 9 Amps !
    This has picked me up from 1% to 3% within the hour and the miserable voltage is steadily picking up too. I've switched it all off and isolated everything for the night - the car is far from safe or complete and I daren't leave it unattended.
    Time to log onto eBay etc and see how much the repair parts are going to cost now, at least testing major systems so far has only cost one 10 A fuse and some brake fluid.
    My friend with the Model S returned from the local Tesla parts dept having been told they will no longer deal with him - he's been buying small mechanical parts for weeks but it seems the 'Salvage Ban' has caught up with him !
     
    • Like x 5
  20. Jays200

    Jays200 Member

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    Good one. Who's "Karen" ;)
     

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