Oldschool496
Member
Yes most people become bored, there will be something greater by then and everyone will want it.
3 to 5 years max.
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3 to 5 years max.
No need to upgrade? Tesla stops supporting users after some time and yes they force you to upgrade if you want to keep improving. Look at the AP1 users that seem to be left behind? I have AP2 and I don't have many features that other vehicles have that are just several months older like a working Sentry Mode, Working Browser, Etc. You just bought a current vehicle... Lets see how you feel about that in just 2-3 years.
I may be in the minority but I just don't see how these things are "forcing" an upgrade.
Apple introduced Haptic touch at one point, yay! you get vibrations now! Does that mean that the older phones stopped working? Nope. Can an EV (or any car as such) without sentry mode or a browser still be driven...umm..normally?
In 2-3 years from now when your car is left behind because they moved on to a something better we will see how you think your car will still be getting upgrades in your 10-15 years plan.
My car is apparently already left behind. I have a 2015 90D that I bought used last month. It was bought from Tesla, so it has the 4 yr warranty if something goes wrong, but do I care about "upgrades"? Not even a bit. If I cared, I'd have spent $110K instead of less than half that.
This whole fetish about "upgrades" is just that. Just because a newer car gets "whatever mode" and your car doesn't, doesn't make your car any less functional than it was before.
My reply was to Kiwiadventure who thinks these cars will get constant updates though 10-15 years. In regard to your purchase you bought your car used so you did fine. I paid $113k and right after that the bottom fell out and everything I paid for in an option is now given away for free. My Trade in Value is much less than 1/2 what I paid and I just reached 30k miles and car is outdated already. I can buy a better brand new Model S for $85k new so essentially they dropped the retail price of the Model S $30k in less than 3 years.
Ah, got it. My apologies if I misread your post. I absolutely do not expect to get "upgrades" for the next 10-15 years. Hell, if I get any upgrades at all, I'd be surprised.
As far as depreciation/Tesla pricing goes...well you summed it up well. It's not a good place to be in, when you see the price going down like that, but it's not entirely unexpected. Tesla (by now) has established a record of dropping prices relatively consistently. That said, I don't think the prices are gonna go too far south, we just need to see a floor.
Kiwiadventure
Member
Why would you not receive upgrades in 10-15 years. I've owned BMW's and lived with high depreciation so nothing new there.
What do you mean by upgrades? Ask a 2012 S60 owner what kind of software upgrades they've seen in the past 3 years or more. It was a fight to get my 2013 TPMS sensors upgraded...
And this is exactly why I will never BUY a Tesla. Lease, lease, lease. Then don't have to worry about what they do with values.
I've done the math. A lease adds up to about the same cost over 3 years. If your car has retained 50% of its value, then it's about a break even proposition. If it depreciates more, not your problem. Of course, if you drive way over 15,000 miles a year, lease may not be for you.
Also, with the current pricing, a purchase for an S or X isn't as bad. Wouldn't buy the dime a dozen Model 3.
Also, with a lease, don't have to worry about battery degradation, or charging to 100% every single time if you want to, etc.
I'm one that only keeps cars for 2-3 years anyway. After taking a bath on my 2013 Model S (my first one), it was the last Tesla I bought. All have been leased since. My last P90D had a residual value of over $70,000. I saw it listed on their website at just a hair over $50,000 after turning it in. Plus they had to give out another 4 years of warranty. Glad it wasn't my problem.
Tesla being what they are, a tech company that sells cars, is never a safe "buy". Tech changes too much and Tesla has proven they will slash prices on a whim whenever they feel like it. Absolutely LOVE the cars, but don't trust the company in terms of an investment. I know a car isn't an investment, but you never want to lose more than your fair share of value on a big purchase. Lease takes away the stress and hassle. Been a happy Tesla driver ever since. Just haven't "owned" one.
I've done the math. A lease adds up to about the same cost over 3 years. If your car has retained 50% of its value, then it's about a break even proposition. If it depreciates more, not your problem. Of course, if you drive way over 15,000 miles a year, lease may not be for you.
Also, with the current pricing, a purchase for an S or X isn't as bad. Wouldn't buy the dime a dozen Model 3.
Also, with a lease, don't have to worry about battery degradation, or charging to 100% every single time if you want to, etc.
I'm one that only keeps cars for 2-3 years anyway. After taking a bath on my 2013 Model S (my first one), it was the last Tesla I bought. All have been leased since. My last P90D had a residual value of over $70,000. I saw it listed on their website at just a hair over $50,000 after turning it in. Plus they had to give out another 4 years of warranty. Glad it wasn't my problem.
Tesla being what they are, a tech company that sells cars, is never a safe "buy". Tech changes too much and Tesla has proven they will slash prices on a whim whenever they feel like it. Absolutely LOVE the cars, but don't trust the company in terms of an investment. I know a car isn't an investment, but you never want to lose more than your fair share of value on a big purchase. Lease takes away the stress and hassle. Been a happy Tesla driver ever since. Just haven't "owned" one.
huh? Why would you? It's a car...it has features and options. You bought it knowing what it has.
Tesla is under NO obligation to give you "upgrades" to begin with, let alone 10-15 years.
I think there are some very valid reasons to buy over leasing despite the exponential rate of change here which is frankly, alarming.
I think the base cars offer the best value and serve as a pricing hedge as they sit much closer to the pricing floor. With the base car, the entry price remains largely unchanged, you just keep getting more overtime for the same roughly 70-75K give or take a bit.
Now as far as features and technology changes and getting left behind, there is no simple way to get the latest and greatest but to lease and pay the rental premium.
I think the base cars offer the best value and serve as a pricing hedge as they sit much closer to the pricing floor. With the base car, the entry price remains largely unchanged, you just keep getting more overtime for the same roughly 70-75K give or take a bit.
Now as far as features and technology changes and getting left behind, there is no simple way to get the latest and greatest but to lease and pay the rental premium.
Anyone buying a used Model S off Ebay, Autotrader, Truecar, etc hasn't done their homework. A few months ago, I was one of those people looking on all different sites for a used P100D. And then I discovered the huge advantage of buying a used Tesla from Tesla; most important is the warranty. If you buy a used P100D from Tesla, you'll get a brand new 4 year 50k mile warranty (cars with less than 50k miles) and the remainder of the 8 year battery warranty. Hmmm so if someone purchases the same P100D from any dealer (other than Tesla), you would just get the remainder of the original 4 year 50k mile warranty. That's pretty huge but I'm sure many people looking aren't aware of it. Anyone looking to buy a used Tesla should hands down only consider buying from Tesla, and preferably cars with less than 50k miles..If someone has a little patience, some tremendous deals pop up in used inventory.
Other sources could have plenty of warranty left as well as extended warranty. You can also retain the free supercharging if you buy private. You can add extended warranty but you can’t add free supercharging. You have to look at everything case by case. Price is king. No so hands down.
You're right, it's definitely a case by case basis. Since I was looking to spend $80k max for a P100D, my search were only for 2017 (or late 2016) so it made sense for me to only buy from Tesla which I did. If I purchased from a dealer other than Tesla, I'd only have 1-2 years of warranty left compared to Tesla's 4 year 50k mile warranty.
Btw, most of the P100Ds currently in used inventory come with free unlimited supercharging. I think Tesla added it within the past month or two because it wasn't offered a few months ago when I started looking. I'm glad I waited because I purchased mine from Tesla and it has free supercharging. I love the car btw...
Except that as pointed out by many Tesla fans (and especially fanbois), Tesla vehicles don't become obsolete because of constant OTA upgrades, they get BETTER. Lol.
TFCooper3
Member
My 2016 X90D depreciated a bit over 40% in 3½ years, retaining almost 60% of its value. That's based on Tesla's trade-in credit for a new Long Range S. According to your math, was I better off buying than leasing?
That depends on if you are actually selling during or near a standard lease period, your mileage and vehicle condition. If not, it does not really matter. So it depends, but Tesla historically is not competitive with respect to lease offerings.
