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P3D- stickier tire tests: 3.0 secs?
- Thread starter Quickturtle
- Start date
I have RE71R's and don't see any significant improvement in 0-60 time. I don't think the traction control is dynamic enough to increase power output based on perceived grip available, rather it's likely an open-loop system that they've tuned for the car in general.
Reducing unsprung and rotating mass is not a silver bullet to unlock much faster acceleration like many try to claim, i think people just like having reasons for buying the nice wheels
Reducing unsprung and rotating mass is not a silver bullet to unlock much faster acceleration like many try to claim, i think people just like having reasons for buying the nice wheels
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
MagnusMako
Member
Trevor from Model 3 Owners Club got his P3D+ 0-60 down to 3.12s with lighter wheels and different rubber (9.2 pounds per corner less) - shaving about a 1/10th off (he was getting 3.2s before). Youtube video is called "How fast can a Performance Model 3 really go?".
Great point, i meant that they wouldn't increase power past what it was designed/tuned for by "feeling" more grip. It would definitely REDUCE power based on traction though.
I've seen that video, keep in mind Ian (the main character of the video) sells those Fast Wheels so there is a bit of a conflict of interest going on. Also he has runs at 3.17s before and 3.12s after, so that's a pretty small difference. Also i question the accuracy of <$100 sensor when discussing tenths of a second.
Erik from DAErik YouTube channel has also done a similar test and i think he "shaved off" maybe .02 seconds. Long story short, you really aren't going to change the 0-60 that much to the point where its noticeable or significant.
If you want different wheels for looks, great that makes sense to me. If you want something stronger to avoid bent wheels, fantastic. If you want something wider for track use, awesome. But picking a slightly lighter wheel or more aggressive tire compound just for "improved 0-60" seems silly IMO.
MagnusMako
Member
Yes I noticed the difference in 3.17 isn't much but that was only 1 run out of 5 and the other 4 he only got 3.2. It's hard to say the difference without a bigger sample size but averaging those the difference is actually 0.07s, so not quite a tenth but close. With that said though, the stickier tires should make a difference and Elon has mentioned so in a tweet as well. I don't see anything silly about it if you enjoy taking it to the drag strip or are doing multiple things to make the car lighter all around which all add up. I think for most it's usually a combination of the reasons you mentioned, not just purely acceleration.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
On September 25th, he said stickier ties would result in better handling, but not aware of any reference he made to 0-60. Anyway they certainly will make it handle better! And nothing wrong with lighter wheels, for handling and a tiny acceleration benefit.
However, as already mentioned:
P3D is not traction limited. Reference the 60-0 stopping distances and reference posted 0-60 times on the MXM4 vs PS4S (~identical). In good traction conditions, you need about 1G to break the MXM4 loose and 1.2G for the PS4S (I think this makes some assumptions about symmetry of the braking and acceleration events and weight transfer being equivalent). Anyway, the P3D is around 0.85G peak acceleration; far enough off to not be a concern.
I have a hard time breaking the PS4S loose on wet pavement (though it certainly can be done).
So slow!
Definitely remove your interior. That will help. You can also go with much smaller diameter wheels (removing the brake rotors/calipers to allow you to go really small has been suggested). This will help; more force at the ground! But you’ll be limited sooner at the top end (peak HP (and the end of “peak” (flat) torque) is around 45mph with stock wheel diameter, and after that torque starts dropping), so there is an optimal diameter for 0-60 times.
silentsnow31802
Member
Gut the interior and you’ll do better. And it’s free.
Im still waiting to see this happen.
I removed my rear bottom seat cushion for a few days while installing a stereo. The sound of the electronics was pretty neat.
I have RE71R's and don't see any significant improvement in 0-60 time. I don't think the traction control is dynamic enough to increase power output based on perceived grip available, rather it's likely an open-loop system that they've tuned for the car in general.
Reducing unsprung and rotating mass is not a silver bullet to unlock much faster acceleration like many try to claim, i think people just like having reasons for buying the nice wheels
Agreed but I do think that with lighter-weight rotors and the Very lightest Alloys and tires you might get 0.2 seconds off 0 to 60 times. Best case scenario I think you could get very close to 3.0 seconds but somebody has to step up and prove that speculation
usofrob
Member
Humorously, it's quite possible that the fastest wheel/tire combo would be 17" front with like 185 wide, and 18" rear with 205. That should allow for the lightest wheels and tires. Particularly considering that grip isn't the limitation, you could choose lighter, less grippy tires.
Someone posted dyno runs here a while back with different battery charge states, and from that it seemed obvious that the software limits the torque on launch up to ~25mph no matter what the battery charge is. So I think it is possible for the car to launch faster, but it would have to be programmed. I think Elon alluded to this a few days ago... It's probably programmed that way so it doesn't snap the axle splines or the axle shafts themselves (or something worse), so that may be a limiting factor.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I have not seen a single dyno run plot which accurately describes what happens anywhere near 0RPM. There may be limits to torque below 1-2mph but above that it is extremely constant up to the HP limit.
Here is an example of a dyno plot:
5% increase in power
This plot (and all plots I have seen) shows the torque dropping off at ~2000rpm motor revs (assuming they entered the drive ratio correctly). That would be at about 15mph. We know this does not happen because it would imply a lot lower acceleration at low speeds. The dyno just is not set up to measure these low RPMs accurately, as far as I can tell.
Here is a VBOX plot:
Perf gets higher top speed, RWD more range, but no love for AWD???
You can quibble about VBOX accuracy below about 3mph, and it may well ease in the torque to prevent jerk there, but above that speed,it is smooth, consistent, constant acceleration, up to the HP limit at 45mph or so, when the slope starts to become more shallow.
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