P85D Lost power on road, "Pull over safely"

[gpetti]

Well, that's one of the things that I was worried about for you in all this. Are you sure you're getting "a brand new motor?" Because in other threads there has been discussion of people with very low mileage cars like yours getting motors replaced, and they, as per warranty, did not have to receive new motors, but rather reconditioned (or some term like that) motors.

You may want to inquire as to the details of whatever motor is being put into your car.

im assuming as its a front drive there won't be many (any) rebuilt ones around yet. It's possible that they may even have a new version of it by now. (Just looking for positives)

 

[Cyclone]

im assuming as its a front drive there won't be many (any) rebuilt ones around yet. It's possible that they may even have a new version of it by now. (Just looking for positives)

Granted I am about to talk about a small consumer electronic device rather than a large vehicle, but I was thinking the same thing as you gpetti. Two or three years ago, I had an iPhone arrive via scratch on release day. The following week I went into a local Apple Store to complain and get a replacement. They were no fuss and happy to do it, but did tell me that since I bought it from Verizon and not them, the only way to guarantee getting a brand new phone rather than a rebuilt phone would be to go through Verizon. "Third party purchases" for Apple products get a "like-new" replacement as opposed to Apple-purchased products getting "brand new" replacements (with the first X period of time - forget what X was). That said, he also said that since the phone released less than a week ago, they don't have any "like-new" stock and would have to open a box to give me a replacement.

So, hopefully, you get a "brand new" replacement rather than a "like-new" replacement given how new this motor is in its lifecycle as a product.

 

[gpetti]

Granted I am about to talk about a small consumer electronic device rather than a large vehicle, but I was thinking the same thing as you gpetti. Two or three years ago, I had an iPhone arrive via scratch on release day. The following week I went into a local Apple Store to complain and get a replacement. They were no fuss and happy to do it, but did tell me that since I bought it from Verizon and not them, the only way to guarantee getting a brand new phone rather than a rebuilt phone would be to go through Verizon. "Third party purchases" for Apple products get a "like-new" replacement as opposed to Apple-purchased products getting "brand new" replacements (with the first X period of time - forget what X was). That said, he also said that since the phone released less than a week ago, they don't have any "like-new" stock and would have to open a box to give me a replacement.

So, hopefully, you get a "brand new" replacement rather than a "like-new" replacement given how new this motor is in its lifecycle as a product.

Exactly. Given that I don't even have 1000 Kms on it or a month of driving, I'd really like to feel that I had a brand new unit. Talked to my SC today, the unit may not arrive until later today or tomorrow. He said that it will take more time than "usual" as it involves a lot of engineering feedback.Sounds scary! I guess any other P85D drivers in BC can thank me for providing a training car for the new front drive units
<Sorry Vancouver SC if anyone's reading, just be gentle with my baby>

 

[dirkhh]

Exactly. Given that I don't even have 1000 Kms on it or a month of driving, I'd really like to feel that I had a brand new unit. Talked to my SC today, the unit may not arrive until later today or tomorrow. He said that it will take more time than "usual" as it involves a lot of engineering feedback.Sounds scary! I guess any other P85D drivers in BC can thank me for providing a training car for the new front drive units
<Sorry Vancouver SC if anyone's reading, just be gentle with my baby>

The perks of being a truly early adopter...

 

[gpetti]

The perks of being a truly early adopter...

As I think I mentioned elsewhere, the irony is I ended up re-ordering from my car that was originally built from November 21st to 26th, to one that completed January 21st (only a month before yours @dirkhh). One of the reasons I reordered was because my first car was pulled off the line and seemed to have issues besides the next gen seat debacle - ultimately nobody could or would tell me what was wrong. Getting a "fresh new car" straight off the line seemed a much safer bet. More fool me. I only just finally got the P85D last month and already it's back in Vancouver - for nearly a week now.

 

[dirkhh]

As I think I mentioned elsewhere, the irony is I ended up re-ordering from my car that was originally built from November 21st to 26th, to one that completed January 21st (only a month before yours @dirkhh). One of the reasons I reordered was because my first car was pulled off the line and seemed to have issues besides the next gen seat debacle - ultimately nobody could or would tell me what was wrong. Getting a "fresh new car" straight off the line seemed a much safer bet. More fool me. I only just finally got the P85D last month and already it's back in Vancouver - for nearly a week now.

I remember reading about all this... mine is still in production...

 

[Andyw2100]

Exactly. Given that I don't even have 1000 Kms on it or a month of driving, I'd really like to feel that I had a brand new unit. Talked to my SC today, the unit may not arrive until later today or tomorrow. He said that it will take more time than "usual" as it involves a lot of engineering feedback.Sounds scary! I guess any other P85D drivers in BC can thank me for providing a training car for the new front drive units
<Sorry Vancouver SC if anyone's reading, just be gentle with my baby>

I'm only pointing this out so that you can ask the questions if you want to and get the answers you want, or make the appropriate requests if the initial answers happen to not be the answers you want. But just because Tesla has only been selling the P85Ds for a relatively short time doesn't mean they couldn't have any rebuilt / remanufactured / other-than-brand-new P85D front engines available to swap into your car. Since the warranty allows them to put in quite a bit less than a "brand new engine" I can think of lots of possibilities.

Tesla was working on the P85D for a long time. I'm sure they've had engines from some test vehicles that have had to be rebuilt. I don't know what the fine print on the warranty would be on the following, but if the service center feels they are in a time-crunch, might they consider pulling an engine from one of their demo cars, and keeping that demo car off the road until a new engine arrives, and using that demo car's engine in your car, if it met the terms of the warranty? Again, I'm not trying to scare you, gpetti. But this seems a little more complicated than new vs. refurbished iPhones when the model is a week old. I think if you ask the right questions and make the right requests you should be able to get exactly what you want, but if you just hope you're getting a brand new front engine because there just aren't any other possibilities you may be taking your chances.

In the worst case scenario, if they tell you they are putting in an engine that you are not happy about, and they aren't willing or able to supply a brand new engine, you may be able to ask more specifically what was wrong with your engine, and if they still can't say, see about getting it back.

 

[gpetti]

I remember reading about all this... mine is still in production...

Well maybe don't make the mistake I did of demanding to know why it was sitting in production for so long. The next day it was complete and shipped shortly after. Apparently it wasn't fully cooked yet.

 

[dirkhh]

Well maybe don't make the mistake I did of demanding to know why it was sitting in production for so long. The next day it was complete and shipped shortly after. Apparently it wasn't fully cooked yet.

Believe it or not, the thought crossed my mind. Most people seem to report 5-7 days "in production" - but some sit there MUCH longer. I'm trying not to fret it. (he says as if he means it...)

 

[gpetti]

I'm only pointing this out so that you can ask the questions if you want to and get the answers you want, or make the appropriate requests if the initial answers happen to not be the answers you want. But just because Tesla has only been selling the P85Ds for a relatively short time doesn't mean they couldn't have any rebuilt / remanufactured / other-than-brand-new P85D front engines available to swap into your car. Since the warranty allows them to put in quite a bit less than a "brand new engine" I can think of lots of possibilities.

Tesla was working on the P85D for a long time. I'm sure they've had engines from some test vehicles that have had to be rebuilt. I don't know what the fine print on the warranty would be on the following, but if the service center feels they are in a time-crunch, might they consider pulling an engine from one of their demo cars, and keeping that demo car off the road until a new engine arrives, and using that demo car's engine in your car, if it met the terms of the warranty? Again, I'm not trying to scare you, gpetti. But this seems a little more complicated than new vs. refurbished iPhones when the model is a week old. I think if you ask the right questions and make the right requests you should be able to get exactly what you want, but if you just hope you're getting a brand new front engine because there just aren't any other possibilities you may be taking your chances.

In the worst case scenario, if they tell you they are putting in an engine that you are not happy about, and they aren't willing or able to supply a brand new engine, you may be able to ask more specifically what was wrong with your engine, and if they still can't say, see about getting it back.

I was assuming that given how long it's taking to get the motor it must be a new one from the factory but I guess it's possible they haven't finished rebuilding one yet
Good thing I'm not high strung Andy you'd be really raising my anxiety level daily:smile:
dont mistake my semi laid back style on here, I have to pace myself between rants.
I'll probably hassle them a bit more yet and I'll be asking for a clear explanation in the next day or so one way or another.
At least if engineering is directly involved I'm less suspicious about whether the car actually needed anything done.

 

[breser]

I'm only pointing this out so that you can ask the questions if you want to and get the answers you want, or make the appropriate requests if the initial answers happen to not be the answers you want. But just because Tesla has only been selling the P85Ds for a relatively short time doesn't mean they couldn't have any rebuilt / remanufactured / other-than-brand-new P85D front engines available to swap into your car. Since the warranty allows them to put in quite a bit less than a "brand new engine" I can think of lots of possibilities.

My 85D had the rear drive unit swapped. I specifically asked if it was new (since I wasn't going to accept it if it wasn't since the car hadn't even been delivered yet). They kinda laughed at the question and told me they didn't have any refurbished rear drive units yet since it was a brand new vehicle. They then joked that my car was newer than when it arrived.

Of course this means nothing with respect to the P85D. We've heard about drive unit replacements happening. It's likely they have some refurbished units at this point.

Tesla was working on the P85D for a long time. I'm sure they've had engines from some test vehicles that have had to be rebuilt. I don't know what the fine print on the warranty would be on the following, but if the service center feels they are in a time-crunch, might they consider pulling an engine from one of their demo cars, and keeping that demo car off the road until a new engine arrives, and using that demo car's engine in your car, if it met the terms of the warranty? Again, I'm not trying to scare you, gpetti. But this seems a little more complicated than new vs. refurbished iPhones when the model is a week old. I think if you ask the right questions and make the right requests you should be able to get exactly what you want, but if you just hope you're getting a brand new front engine because there just aren't any other possibilities you may be taking your chances.

In the worst case scenario, if they tell you they are putting in an engine that you are not happy about, and they aren't willing or able to supply a brand new engine, you may be able to ask more specifically what was wrong with your engine, and if they still can't say, see about getting it back.

I know that another 85D that was intended as a marketing car came in with mine. I have good reason to believe that this car was not parted to provide parts for my car. Doing so would have probably saved them a lot of hassle. For one thing we ended up waiting on a part, specifically an o-ring. Unless both vehicles had the same torn o-ring they wouldn't need to wait. They went out of their way to point out that they searched locally for a replacement part, including going to lose auto part stores looking for the part. They couldn't find one and so had to wait for one to be pulled from the production line and shipped to them. If they had considered pulling the part from the other 85D I'm sure they would have mentioned it, they didn't. Especially since they were trying to explain to me the lengths they went to try and avoid the further delay.

I'm highly skeptical they'd be pulling used parts of engineering, test or even marketing vehicles to put on customer vehicles. Just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'm highly skeptical they'd be pulling used parts of engineering, test or even marketing vehicles to put on customer vehicles. Just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

No argument from me there. I was just pointing out the possibility, even if only a remote one, that there could be ways the motor may not be new, and that as you did, if gpetti wanted to be assured he was getting a new motor he should ask specifically.

And as for a service center possibly doing something that doesn't seem like a good idea, would you say taking a customer's car that hasn't been licensed or insured yet, but is in fact already owned by the customer, and having a valet drive it around because there was no trailer immediately available to tow it, and because they were in a rush, sounds like a good idea? It really doesn't to me. Since this service center / delivery center did that, I'm not sure we should count on them only doing things that seem like good ideas to us. Which is why I think if they felt pressured for time, and were having trouble acquiring a part, using one from another car would not be completely outside the realm of possibility.

 

[breser]

And as for a service center possibly doing something that doesn't seem like a good idea, would you say taking a customer's car that hasn't been licensed or insured yet, but is in fact already owned by the customer, and having a valet drive it around because there was no trailer immediately available to tow it, and because they were in a rush, sounds like a good idea? It really doesn't to me. Since this service center / delivery center did that, I'm not sure we should count on them only doing things that seem like good ideas to us. Which is why I think if they felt pressured for time, and were having trouble acquiring a part, using one from another car would not be completely outside the realm of possibility.

Obviously that scenario wasn't a good one. But I wouldn't conclude that because one happened the other might too. I'd bet the transportation decision was made by a more junior employee. I'd also bet that parting another car at the service center would require a manager to approve it. Using refurbished part from a engineering or test car almost certainly would have to come from HQ. So I don't think we're talking about the same person who made the poor decision you reference in the past making this decision.

 

[Andyw2100]

Obviously that scenario wasn't a good one. But I wouldn't conclude that because one happened the other might too. I'd bet the transportation decision was made by a more junior employee. I'd also bet that parting another car at the service center would require a manager to approve it. Using refurbished part from a engineering or test car almost certainly would have to come from HQ. So I don't think we're talking about the same person who made the poor decision you reference in the past making this decision.

Again, you are almost certainly correct.

But it's the "almost" that will still make me feel better when gpetti hears explicitly about the status of the motor being used in his car.

(I'm not sure why I feel so invested in gpetti's outcome. Perhaps it's because of what I know he has already gone through!)

 

[breser]

Again, you are almost certainly correct.

But it's the "almost" that will still make me feel better when gpetti hears explicitly about the status of the motor being used in his car.

(I'm not sure why I feel so invested in gpetti's outcome. Perhaps it's because of what I know he has already gone through!)

I've learned not to assume that Tesla will do the right thing in my opinion. So I ask. So I fully support gpetti asking and finding out and then deciding for himself what he wants to accept. However, personally, even on my car now with about 1,300 miles on it, I don't think I'd refuse a refurbished part. Either way they have to stand behind it. If there's something wrong with this one you can bet a refurbished one has it fixed. Refurbished very likely can mean better than new since it's had the bugs worked out of it. But I know you realize that.

 

[Andyw2100]

I've learned not to assume that Tesla will do the right thing in my opinion. So I ask. So I fully support gpetti asking and finding out and then deciding for himself what he wants to accept. However, personally, even on my car now with about 1,300 miles on it, I don't think I'd refuse a refurbished part. Either way they have to stand behind it. If there's something wrong with this one you can bet a refurbished one has it fixed. Refurbished very likely can mean better than new since it's had the bugs worked out of it. But I know you realize that.

Sure. It's just I remain largely unconvinced that there really was ever anything actually wrong with gpetti's engine. And I may be wrong, but I think he may be having thoughts along the same lines. If he is, the idea that Tesla might be swapping out his new, perfectly good engine for a refurbished one obviously wouldn't sit well, in spite of whatever warranties accompany the refurbished one. If, on the other hand, they are swapping out his perfectly good engine for another new one, I imagine he'd be fine with that at this point, since the week has already been invested, and he can't go back in time.

 

[Cottonwood]

Did the Pagosa Springs to Boulder, CO drive today with .179 in my P85D and range mode on, without incident.

• 242 miles from Pagosa to Silverthorne getting 261 Wh/mi. Arrived with 40 rated miles and considered driving north on route 9 and back again, to beat Stevezzzz's P85D record, but passed.
• 86 miles from Silverthorne to Boulder and some errands in Boulder getting 202 Wh/mi

 

[Andyw2100]

Did the Pagosa Springs to Boulder, CO drive today with .179 in my P85D and range mode on, without incident.

• 242 miles from Pagosa to Silverthorne getting 261 Wh/mi
• 86 miles from Silverthorne to Boulder and some errands in Boulder getting 202 Wh/mi

What's your take on whether or not efficiency has taken a step backwards with .179?

 

[Cottonwood]

What's your take on whether or not efficiency has taken a step backwards with .179?

Hard to say. I had very hard to calibrate conditions. Wet roads, slush, and packed powder snow over Wolf Creek caused a lot of high drag, high energy miles, but an average 8-12 mph tail-wind for the rest of the trip more than made up for that. Over Wolf Creek Pass, I was attempting to do slush drafting, driving in the preceding cars tracks. This drive was colder than a few weeks ago with .140 where I got 278 Wh/mi on the same route vs this trip where I got 261 Wh/mi. Wind is a 4-letter word, but when it's a tail wind, four letters spell nice.

My gut says the efficiency is a wash between .140 and .179, but without calibrated metrics.

 

[Andyw2100]

Hard to say. I had very hard to calibrate conditions. Wet roads, slush, and packed powder snow over Wolf Creek caused a lot of high drag, high energy miles, but an average 8-12 mph tail-wind for the rest of the trip more than made up for that. Over Wolf Creek Pass, I was attempting to do slush drafting, driving in the preceding cars tracks. This drive was colder than a few weeks ago with .140 where I got 278 Wh/mi on the same route vs this trip where I got 261 Wh/mi. Wind is a 4-letter word, but when it's a tail wind, it's nice.

My gut says the efficiency is a wash between .140 and .179, but without calibrated metrics.

Fair enough.

I've taken just one trip so far with .179. I don't believe I had seen an efficiency improvement with any of the earlier versions. The one trip I took with .179 I couldn't conclude anything because it was in the snow, so that was a negative, but I had a tail wind, and because of the snow I went much more slowly. Attempting to measure against EV Trip Planner, it was still well below EV Trip Planner estimates, but of course the snow wasn't accounted for at all.

It was the lowest wh/mi of any trip I've recorded so far, so given the snow, that is promising. On the other hand, it was also one of the warmest trips, I had that tail-wind, it was definitely the slowest trip, and it was downhill. (Of the trips I'm recording half are uphill 600 or 700 feet and the other half are downhill the same amount.) The question is does the snow outweigh all the positives, and if so, by how much? I'm hoping it does, and by a lot!

I'll be going the other way tomorrow, but the weather is likely to be bad again, so I still may not get even one usable data point!