P85D Lost power on road, "Pull over safely"

[gpetti]

Sure. It's just I remain largely unconvinced that there really was ever anything actually wrong with gpetti's engine. And I may be wrong, but I think he may be having thoughts along the same lines. If he is, the idea that Tesla might be swapping out his new, perfectly good engine for a refurbished one obviously wouldn't sit well, in spite of whatever warranties accompany the refurbished one. If, on the other hand, they are swapping out his perfectly good engine for another new one, I imagine he'd be fine with that at this point, since the week has already been invested, and he can't go back in time.

I don't really disagree with anything you and breser have said here. I will ask about the motor but I think given the amount of time it has take to get to the SC (doesn't look like it arrived today) and the comments breser made about the newness of the motor (@breser, it is the front motor that they are replacing) I expect it will be new. I remember making a comment about breser's picture of his car with the frunk out that it must be a bit alarming to see the car all pulled apart. My car isn't brand new anymore - though not exactly well used yet either, but I'm a little alarmed with having it pulled apart so early on. I'm sure I'll get over it once I'm back in the car (assuming it is trouble free from then on).

 

[breser]

I don't really disagree with anything you and breser have said here. I will ask about the motor but I think given the amount of time it has take to get to the SC (doesn't look like it arrived today) and the comments breser made about the newness of the motor (@breser, it is the front motor that they are replacing) I expect it will be new. I remember making a comment about breser's picture of his car with the frunk out that it must be a bit alarming to see the car all pulled apart. My car isn't brand new anymore - though not exactly well used yet either, but I'm a little alarmed with having it pulled apart so early on. I'm sure I'll get over it once I'm back in the car (assuming it is trouble free from then on).

Yeah I realized you're getting a new front. I got a new rear but both the front and rear are the new smaller motors on the 85Ds. I'd assume that if you needed a new rear it could be refurbished from any P85/P85+/P85D.

I was a tad alarmed but talking to them and understanding how they'd basically saved me from having a problem after I took delivery made me a lot more comfortable with the situation.

 

[mhan00]

So it's confirmed the new update fixed the issue? No one who got the new firmware has had the same problem? If so, then that is good news.

 

[electrish]

Did the Pagosa Springs to Boulder, CO drive today with .179 in my P85D and range mode on, without incident.

• 242 miles from Pagosa to Silverthorne getting 261 Wh/mi. Arrived with 40 rated miles and considered driving north on route 9 and back again, to beat Stevezzzz's P85D record, but passed.
• 86 miles from Silverthorne to Boulder and some errands in Boulder getting 202 Wh/mi

These are enviably good numbers, especially for the conditions you describe!
I've consistently used 450-480 Wh/mi during my commute in sub-freezing temperatures in somewhat hilly terrain.

This morning I got below 420 for the first time and I think it was because the battery was warmer than usual (I started with the dashed regen line at 45).
Even though I have tried to heat up the battery by finishing charging close to departure and preheating the cabin OFF range mode, last night I forgot to turn range mode off.
Since it still got me to 45 Wh of regen before I even started, I suspect that .179 may now allow battery conditioning on range mode.
Has anyone else seen this?

- - - Updated - - -

So it's confirmed the new update fixed the issue? No one who got the new firmware has had the same problem? If so, then that is good news.

It seems that way.

You're now safe for roam about the country (in range mode).

 

[Andyw2100]

This morning I got below 420 for the first time and I think it was because the battery was warmer than usual (I started with the dashed regen line at 45).
Even though I have tried to heat up the battery by finishing charging close to departure and preheating the cabin OFF range mode, last night I forgot to turn range mode off.
Since it still got me to 45 Wh of regen before I even started, I suspect that .179 may now allow battery conditioning on range mode.
Has anyone else seen this?

Range mode has never had an effect on how the battery is heated when it's being charged on shore power. If range mode is on, the battery won't heat on shore power (or battery power) when the cabin is preheating. But if you timed your charge to end close to when you were leaving, your battery would be warmed whether you had range mode on or not.

So unless you also completely mis-timed the end of your charge, or just didn't charge before departure at all today, the fact that you had regen available doesn't give any information about whether or not .179 allows pack heating with range mode on.

If that feature is something you are hoping for, you'd probably be interested in this thread: Would you use battery heating if it were available?

 

[gpetti]

Yeah I realized you're getting a new front. I got a new rear but both the front and rear are the new smaller motors on the 85Ds. I'd assume that if you needed a new rear it could be refurbished from any P85/P85+/P85D.

I was a tad alarmed but talking to them and understanding how they'd basically saved me from having a problem after I took delivery made me a lot more comfortable with the situation.

Sorry, I can never tell what people have or haven't read. Starting to repeat myself more often than not. I definitely don't want to bully them into sending my car back with just the firmware and then finding out they were right about the motor when it shuts down at some inopportune moment.

 

[scaesare]

Range mode has never had an effect on how the battery is heated when it's being charged on shore power. If range mode is on, the battery won't heat on shore power (or battery power) when the cabin is preheating.

Aren't those two statements contradictory?

Range mode prevents battery heating even when plugged in, ergo range mode has an effect on battery heating when on shore power.

Electrish seems to indicate this may have changed.

 

[Cottonwood]

Range mode has never had an effect on how the battery is heated when it's being charged on shore power. If range mode is on, the battery won't heat on shore power (or battery power) when the cabin is preheating. But if you timed your charge to end close to when you were leaving, your battery would be warmed whether you had range mode on or not.

Aren't those two statements contradictory?

Range mode prevents battery heating even when plugged in, ergo range mode has an effect on battery heating when on shore power.

Electrish seems to indicate this may have changed.

Read what Andy wrote carefully. He is saying that Range On/Off affects whether or not the battery is heated with cabin preheating, but that the battery is heated when needed for charging independent of the range setting.

I can't verify the accuracy of those statements, but they seem plausible.

 

[Andyw2100]

Range mode has never had an effect on how the battery is heated when it's being charged on shore power. If range mode is on, the battery won't heat on shore power (or battery power) when the cabin is preheating.

Aren't those two statements contradictory?

Range mode prevents battery heating even when plugged in, ergo range mode has an effect on battery heating when on shore power.

Electrish seems to indicate this may have changed.

My statement above is not contradictory.

We're talking about two different things.

With range mode on, preheating the cabin will not preheat the battery. With range mode off it will. That is one issue.

A completely separate issue is how the battery heats when it is being charged. Range mode being on or off has no impact on that. The battery has to be heated when it is being charged if it is cold, as a cold battery can't be charged. That is why people try to time charges to end near departure time. The battery will be warm anyway, because it will have just been charged, and it will have had to be warmed to be charged.

And I'm not saying that .179 didn't change things such that now the battery does heat with range mode on when the cabin is preheating. I'm just pointing out that if Electrish's battery was warm because it was just charged, he can't conclude that there was a change made in .179 that affected that aspect of range mode.

 

[stevezzzz]

Andyw2100 was trying to make the distinction between battery heating as a side effect of charging and battery heating with Range mode OFF as a benefit of pre-heating the cabin on shore power (which has been true since I-don't-know-when). I agree with him: we still don't know if .179 allows heating of the battery as a side benefit of cabin preheating on shore power when Range mode is ON.

[...and he beat me to the Save Changes button, too...]

 

[In2oil]

Sorry, I can never tell what people have or haven't read. Starting to repeat myself more often than not. I definitely don't want to bully them into sending my car back with just the firmware and then finding out they were right about the motor when it shuts down at some inopportune moment.

Bresser,
I think a refurbished powertrain is totally unacceptable imo. Mr Petti has a brand new P85D. Only new parts should be installed on his TESLA.
On another topic,

TESLA I am told simplified their ordering page and deleted a few options such as the dual Chargers. This means that if someone wants to have a Twin charger on his TESLA, the installation will be performed at a service center at a muhc higher price (4000dollars) instead of the 1700.
As well I noticed a few price increase, Carbon fiber interior is now 1100 dollars CDN (900 prior to price increase) as well the paint for the grey cars went from 850 to 1100 dollars.

Does anyone know how long it takes for a TESLA to go from being in queue to being in production? I ordered my car early February and the status hasn't change for a month. I am expecting delivery later March!

 

[stevezzzz]

Did the Pagosa Springs to Boulder, CO drive today with .179 in my P85D and range mode on, without incident.

• 242 miles from Pagosa to Silverthorne getting 261 Wh/mi. Arrived with 40 rated miles and considered driving north on route 9 and back again, to beat Stevezzzz's P85D record, but passed.
• 86 miles from Silverthorne to Boulder and some errands in Boulder getting 202 Wh/mi

Outstanding efficiency, Butch.

Enquiring minds want to know: just how much snow did you have at the house in Pagosa?

 

[Andyw2100]

Andyw2100 was trying to make the distinction between battery heating as a side effect of charging and battery heating with Range mode OFF as a benefit of pre-heating the cabin on shore power (which has been true since I-don't-know-when). I agree with him: we still don't know if .179 allows heating of the battery as a side benefit of cabin preheating on shore power when Range mode is ON.

[...and he beat me to the Save Changes button, too...]

Yeah, but Cottonwood beat me to the "Post" button, apparently by seconds!

Read what Andy wrote carefully. He is saying that Range On/Off affects whether or not the battery is heated with cabin preheating, but that the battery is heated when needed for charging independent of the range setting.

I can't verify the accuracy of those statements, but they seem plausible.

And on that note, I should point out I'm not saying anything ground-breaking here. I'm just restating the common wisdom on this subject, and was using it to point out why the fact that the battery was warm in that situation did not support the theory that .179 changed anything about how range mode affects battery heating.

 

[electrish]

Aren't those two statements contradictory?

Range mode prevents battery heating even when plugged in, ergo range mode has an effect on battery heating when on shore power.

Electrish seems to indicate this may have changed.

What I meant to say was that due to my dismal efficiency, I tried to improve battery performance by keeping range mode off while charging and timed it with departure (which I know is not an exact science) and also heated the cabin.
Even with doing all this, regen has never been greater than 30.
After conclusion of the "pull over" fiasco, I recently turned range mode back on and for the first time charged on range mode last night, without realizing it.
I preheated the cabin as usual and, to my surprise, got the best regen I have ever seen when starting out in the morning, despite charging with range mode on.
Since I know that range mode prevents the battery from preheating and I thought that initial regen may be an indicator for battery temperature, I took this as a possibility that .179 may allow the battery to be preheated on shore power, despite range mode on.
My power efficiency was also slightly improved this morning.

I know, n=1, probably a fluke; that's why I asked if anyone else has seen improved battery performance when charging with range mode on.

 

[Andyw2100]

What I meant to say was that due to my dismal efficiency, I tried to improve battery performance by keeping range mode off while charging and timed it with departure (which I know is not an exact science) and also heated the cabin.
Even with doing all this, regen has never been greater than 30.
After conclusion of the "pull over" fiasco, I recently turned range mode back on and for the first time charged on range mode last night, without realizing it.
I preheated the cabin as usual and, to my surprise, got the best regen I have ever seen when starting out in the morning, despite charging with range mode on.
Since I know that range mode prevents the battery from preheating and I thought that initial regen may be an indicator for battery temperature, I took this as a possibility that .179 may allow the battery to be preheated on shore power, despite range mode on.
My power efficiency was also slightly improved this morning.

I know, n=1, probably a fluke; that's why I asked if anyone else has seen improved battery performance when charging with range mode on.

So your theory, if this happened consistently--I understand that you're not saying this is the case--would be that perhaps range mode on is actually allowing the battery to heat to a higher temperature on shore power, because you had more regen than you ordinarily would have?

If that's what you are suggesting, it is certainly interesting.

It will be interesting to see if others experience anything similar.

 

[electrish]

... perhaps range mode on is actually allowing the battery to heat to a higher temperature on shore power, because you had more regen than you ordinarily would have...

Correct, that's what it seemed like.
It wasn't quite as cold as it has been, though, which adds noise to the system and doubt!

 

[Cottonwood]

Outstanding efficiency...

Thanks! Moderate hypermile technique: Posted Speed Limit +4 mph with a max of 59 mph, careful use of accelerator, very little use of friction brakes, cruise control when no traffic ahead, slush drafting, no aerodynamic drafting (would have caused paint to be sand blasted with road conditions), and most importantly a moderate tail wind...

Enquiring minds want to know: just how much snow did you have at the house in Pagosa?

Almost 3 feet in two storms. Wolf Creek Ski area got almost twice that. Here is the view out my closet window before I shoveled the snow away. I had to put on the shoe shoes for that chore...

 

[Cyclone]

Almost 3 feet in two storms. Wolf Creek Ski area got almost twice that. Here is the view out my closet window before I shoveled the snow away. I had to put on the shoe shoes for that chore...

View attachment 73899

At first glance I thought we were looking at a distant mountain range that you have a view of. Then I read what you typed. Yikes! This native-Floridian wants to bundle up just from seeing the picture!

 

[In2oil]

Yikes,,, I saw the same thing... Why is the window so low to the ground?

 

[Cottonwood]

Yikes,,, I saw the same thing... Why is the window so low to the ground?

It's a little low, but the bottom of the window is about 5 feet off the ground. the snow against the glass is about 6' off the ground. The top of the pile is probably 9-10' above ground level. That's why I put on snow shoes to do the shoveling.

These storms were particularly problematic because it was a lot of warm, wet snow that slid off the roof quickly.

Now you understand why I am so happy with my P85D with Hakka R2's, and why I passed on the 2WD S with Tesla winter tires that they first offered me with .167 problem.