P85D (pre/post April) ride performance

[sorka]

Wait, so what's the point of going to low at high speeds, just better efficiency (less drag?).

I'm not a car guy and am having trouble following this thread. My P85D was manufactured in June 2015. I do feel the car is a bit soft for my taste and probably softer than the P85D that I test drove. Is there an easy way to figure out what suspension I have? I do have air suspension.

All p85ds made after April 30th have the standard suspension. It's too soft. Prior to April 30th the suspension is too stiff.

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And the point is better efficiency, lower center of gravity, and for some because it looks cool.

 

[kirkbauer]

All p85ds made after April 30th have the standard suspension. It's too soft. Prior to April 30th the suspension is too stiff.

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And the point is better efficiency, lower center of gravity, and for some because it looks cool.

It's probably unfair to compare it to my previous 911 but the suspension isn't what I was hoping for in a performance model...

 

[MuppetOwl]

I have a P85D prior april 30 and think the suspension is not to stiff. The P85, 85D with the standard suspension feels like driving a boat.

So it is very strange the P85D is now delivered with the same soft suspension. If you buy a Bmw M5, Audi Rs7 you cant complain about that the suspension is stiff, the car is made that way so it does handle turns better and feel sporty. If some dont like it buy a normal Bmw 5 series or a Tesla 85D.

 

[mkspeedr]

This is a bummer. My dads P85D (December delivery) handles great. That is what I want. I am worried the new setup will be too soft. Bummer.

 

[AMN]

My P85D built in December started riding progressively harsher after about 4,000 miles on the odometer. It was firm but comfortable when it was new. Sporty but well balanced to be driven daily in any conditions.

Now it rides as harsh if not harsher than my 911 turbo with racing coilovers. Some days better, some days worse... really odd. It seems to ride better on "Always Low" suspension setting than on "Standard". I have to admit that I am getting a bit tired of beta testing for Tesla.

 

[bp1000]

We asked this question on our UK orders, some of which we put on hold.

The answer came back last week, the MS has had upgraded suspension components across the range for improved refinement (not a p85d downgrade) and the p85d still has performance suspension to compliment the cars ability.

 

[mgboyes]

We asked this question on our UK orders, some of which we put on hold.

The answer came back last week, the MS has had upgraded suspension components across the range for improved refinement (not a p85d downgrade) and the p85d still has performance suspension to compliment the cars ability.

Interesting. That's not exactly what I've heard. I've been told that the P85D and S85D now have identical suspension (but that the 70D and RWD S85 are different). It's possible that this is because the S85D has had an upgrade to match whatever "performance" stuff the P85D has, but either way it makes the price hike from 85D to P85D pretty hard to swallow :-(

@AMN given the way the air suspension works on the Model S I believe it is expected that the softest ride occurs when it's set to low. The high ride settings are for ground clearance, not for comfort.

 

[sorka]

I've driven pre and post April and they are totally different. Different part numbers for the air springs and different diameter sway bars.

 

[MuppetOwl]

We asked this question on our UK orders, some of which we put on hold.

The answer came back last week, the MS has had upgraded suspension components across the range for improved refinement (not a p85d downgrade) and the p85d still has performance suspension to compliment the cars ability.

I think Tesla UK is lying/dont know then.
Tesla's part catalog clearly show that P85D build after april 30 does have exact same air module, air springs and sway bars as 70D and 85D. P85D build before april 30 have another parts numbers.

 

[mgboyes]

I think Tesla UK is lying/dont know then.
Tesla's part catalog clearly show that P85D build after april 30 does have exact same air module, air springs and sway bars as 70D and 85D. P85D build before april 30 have another parts numbers.

Does the part catalog show that the 70D and 85D have the exact same suspension they've always had, or did April 30 represent a change across the board to unify everything into a new, updated, configuration?

Knowing that the cars have all been "improved" is one thing, but the P85D simply reverting to use the lesser components already being delivered on the 70D and 85D is quite another.

 

[MuppetOwl]

Does the part catalog show that the 70D and 85D have the exact same suspension they've always had, or did April 30 represent a change across the board to unify everything into a new, updated, configuration?

Knowing that the cars have all been "improved" is one thing, but the P85D simply reverting to use the lesser components already being delivered on the 70D and 85D is quite another.

The part number is the same on P85D build after april 30 as it have always been on the 85D from the start. So it is not new parts.

I have proof of this since I did save images from the part catalog from from early January and did compare.

 

[sorka]

My P85D built in December started riding progressively harsher after about 4,000 miles on the odometer. It was firm but comfortable when it was new. Sporty but well balanced to be driven daily in any conditions.

Now it rides as harsh if not harsher than my 911 turbo with racing coilovers. Some days better, some days worse... really odd. It seems to ride better on "Always Low" suspension setting than on "Standard". I have to admit that I am getting a bit tired of beta testing for Tesla.

That's because less air in the springs results in a lower softer spring rate.

I too notice that it seems better on some days and worse on others but I can't place why that should be so unless there's some variation in the ride height beyond what the height setting shows.

 

[sorka]

I have a regular S85 loaner this morning with air. It's a stripper so no other options at all.

The ride quality is like a boat going around corners and very floaty. The P85+ in comparison is about 2/3rds of the way towards the pre April 30 P85D. Also, it tends to want to dart to one side or another when accelerating briskly on the freeway. I don't think it's alignment. The wh / mile is way too good to have bad toe. I think it's the open diff in the rear not damping out the vector forces between the left and right. The D's front wheel drive wouldn't do this as it pull in the front rather than only being pushed from the rear. I dd not notice this on the P85+ though.

 

[commasign]

Ok, how about this? Can someone with a post-April 30 P85D post pictures of their Monroney sticker and Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement? My December 2014 P85D sticker and MVPA clearly show the car as having the Performance Plus Package/Suspension. Would be interested in knowing if they decided to remove all traces of "Performance Plus" from current P85D's.

 

[gordo]

Interesting. I have a late Feb build P85D and it just says "Smart Air Suspension" on the Monroney. In fact, looking back at my purchase agreement as well as the Design Studio PDF saves from early Jan, I see no references to a "Performance Plus" suspension at all.

So, even if I have the Plus suspension (which presumably I do, since I took delivery well before April 30?) , there's no mention of it in any of my documents.

 

[lolachampcar]

I have talked with Tesla extensively about the MS' suspension elements. I believe I even posted one of the responses regarding suspension adjustability wrt the air springs.

My conversations centered around getting more of an M5 suspension performance in the performance version of MS. My P+ was ok but I felt the need to change out the air springs for coil springs to remove that floaty feel. The car felt significantly more stable after the change to coils but this type of feel is not for everyone. My January PD is perfect for me without any need to change out the air springs for coils. I confirmed with Tesla that they did not change the air spring rate from the P+ to my version of the PD so the changes were damping and sway bars. There is significantly less head snatch in my PD when compared to my P+ thus the sway bars must be smaller in the PD. I found this a perfect change as I did not feel the MS has a roll issue and the small improvement in point in with the bigger front bar was not worth the degradation in ride quality.

Having all the suspensions apart changing springs allowed me the opportunity to put standard 85, P85 and P85+ dampers on a shock dyno. In short, there was near zero difference in the rear dampers with the only significant difference being the front P+ dampers being significantly stiffer in both bump and rebound. I have not put my January PD dampers on the dyno but would be willing to bet they are stiffer both front and rear than my P+s.

If Tesla has changed damper valving on the PD, I am VERY glad I got the exact car I have. My reference is the V8 M5 series and my PD compares favorably.

 

[commasign]

Nice. My early P85D has NextGen rear seats and Performance Plus suspension... one of the rare situations where an early build is "better" than a later build.

 

[jerjozwik]

Having all the suspensions apart changing springs allowed me the opportunity to put standard 85, P85 and P85+ dampers on a shock dyno. In short, there was near zero difference in the rear dampers with the only significant difference being the front P+ dampers being significantly stiffer in both bump and rebound. I have not put my January PD dampers on the dyno but would be willing to bet they are stiffer both front and rear than my P+s.

If Tesla has changed damper valving on the PD, I am VERY glad I got the exact car I have. My reference is the V8 M5 series and my PD compares favorably.

do you have access to an 85D willing to let you rip it apart to dyno it?

 

[Niclas]

The lowered coil suspension handles better than the performance plus suspension IMO. If I were to order a PD now, I woul get coils an have the car lowered 1.25". Cheaper and better.

 

[3mp_kwh]

I confirmed with Tesla that they did not change the air spring rate from the P+ to my version of the PD so the changes were damping and sway bars. There is significantly less head snatch in my PD when compared to my P+ thus the sway bars must be smaller in the PD. I found this a perfect change as I did not feel the MS has a roll issue and the small improvement in point in with the bigger front bar was not worth the degradation in ride quality.

Lola, As you've rolled your sleeves up quite a lot I'm hoping maybe you can put a caliper to your sways, or other P85D / 85D owners, for that matter? March built P85D coil comes with 24mm front, 20mm rear. Sorka mentioned his pre-April build was 28mm front. Just because a coil car can come with 24/20, doesn't mean all P85D SAS before/after April do.

Sway bar thickness can be measured with wheels on, on the ground, if you get down there with some kind of caliper and reach in to where the (black) sway bar bends its way from the suspension, across the car. People may want to cock the steering wheel so they can get in from behind.

If you don't find too much head-snatch, there may be a chance Tesla was reaching for 24's among some of the early SAS built P85D's. I doubt P85+ used >28mm, but we can see what folks report. Thanks, all.