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Panasonic v LG Batteries
- Thread starter Anxio
- Start date
They don’t normally. It was only because the vehicles produced had less range that what people ordered so where offered a choice of either take one with less range and a discount or wait longer for your order with the range you expected.
People in the UK weren’t offered this because we didn‘t have the longer range in the first place, nor did we have a cheaper price
As far as I recall it went like this....Tesla was doing real well in China, sold every car they made...then the Chinese government decided to stir up some trouble and a consumer boycott was orchestrated...this left a lot of surplus cars that were shipped to Europe and offered to those on the waiting list who would be offered a chance to receive a car quicker...They don’t normally. It was only because the vehicles produced had less range that what people ordered so where offered a choice of either take one with less range and a discount or wait longer for your order with the range you expected.
People in the UK weren’t offered this because we didn‘t have the longer range in the first place, nor did we have a cheaper price
I got mine the same time was really upset it only had only a 75kwh -My only request was for the 82kwh battery, adviser assured I had the 82kwh battery - I was never offered a discount-just different vague answers from support-they should be more transparent w/battery size ion purchase -some people prob don’t mind a smaller battery -while others would pay more for the bigger one -yet they just put any battery size in same trim & charge the same price, I could if kept the acceleration boost if my battery was bigger, more powerful
your lucky -I heard it’s required for Tesla to be transparent w/battery size upon purchase, not sure what country Sweden ? It should be required w/all Tesla sales- 75kwh battery was 2019, 2020 model, the 82kwh, 79kwh was the 2021 model. According to my VIN decoding -I was suppose to have a BT42 battery in my car - not a 75kwh battery. Support gives different vague answers, If according to my VIN -I should have a BT42 battery, then that’s what I should have, not a 75kwh battery.
Please understand it wasn’t a pleasant buying experience at all ! In fact it was one of the most stressful things I’ve ever done.
I also wanted, first and foremost, the big battery...I only decided to get an ev when the Model 3 was said to do more than 600 km...600 was the tipping point for me, and in the showroom I made them repeat several times it’s range.
Then we were offered the car early...but not told it was any different from the one on order...the discount was there but it wasn’t explained...I thought it was an exchange rate thing or they overcharged on the original invoice.
I started researching online and that is when I realized that it was a smaller battery... but when I confronted the sales staff they all denied it...it wasn’t until I pushed and pushed over a period of time that they admitted it...and then they said that in fact it’s a new battery that can be regularly charged to 100%...so in a practical sense it was the equivalent to a larger battery at a lower charge. Of course this was all lies...the new battery (LFP) was only in the Standard Range and my car is a Long Range...but they never stopped insisting it was true despite me showing them article after article online...they just said don’t believe the internet.
So I decided to wait for delivery and ask the technical staff at the delivery center rather than the sales staff...but they also insisted it was an LFP battery!!
Anyhow I took delivery (by then I was so fed up with the Volvo that I just wanted shot of it and it was part of the trade in)...so my hatred of Volvo was greater than my love for a bigger battery
Anyhow I treat it all as water under the bridge and I do love my Tesla
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I have the same issue with VW lying-and-cheating to me over Dieselgate. Not buying anything from their stable ever again ...
I too have got a lot of water-under-the-bridge with Tesla ... and I too am still hanging in there - only change is that I now give a much more balanced report to anyone that asks me for an opinion.
I think there’s a few mistaken assumptions above
The U.K. LR was always the 75kwh battery although Tesla don’t tell you that. All LHD European cars were meant to have the bigger battery last year. This was reflected in the range displayed on the website, with the U.K. still having the shorter range as before. When in Europe they still delivered cars with the smaller battery/range and not the advertised longer range, they compensated the buyers accordingly.
Tesla make no statements about battery capacity (they never really have although the old numbering system was more or less), only range, and while the two are obviously linked, they are transparent about range (even if they then confuse everyone by showing the EPA range in the cars).
That said, I’ve always been a fan of websites like Tesla-info who show the battery for those that want to know, as well as range but that only works on inventory cars.
The U.K. LR was always the 75kwh battery although Tesla don’t tell you that. All LHD European cars were meant to have the bigger battery last year. This was reflected in the range displayed on the website, with the U.K. still having the shorter range as before. When in Europe they still delivered cars with the smaller battery/range and not the advertised longer range, they compensated the buyers accordingly.
Tesla make no statements about battery capacity (they never really have although the old numbering system was more or less), only range, and while the two are obviously linked, they are transparent about range (even if they then confuse everyone by showing the EPA range in the cars).
That said, I’ve always been a fan of websites like Tesla-info who show the battery for those that want to know, as well as range but that only works on inventory cars.
Now that LG NMC packs are being used in the US for Model 3-LR vehicles, I'm suddenly interested in this topic.
It seems clear that the LG NMC packs charge more slowly than Panasonic NCA packs (although maybe not as slowly as they did before a late-2021 software update), and the kWh capacity is obviously lower.
But there are some mentions about the LG packs having better cold weather performance (acceleration) at low SOC.
Are there any other advantages for the LG NMC packs over the Panasonic NCA packs? I'm specifically wondering about other cold-weather stuff, like max regen when the battery pack is cold and Supercharging speeds when the pack is cold, both of which are quite poor in my 2018 Model 3 with a NCA battery. (When compared to a previous EV that I owned with NMC cells, the regen in my Tesla with NCA when the battery is cold is dramatically lower than in my old EV with NMC. But idk if that’s an NMC vs NCA thing or just a Tesla thing.)
Thanks!
It seems clear that the LG NMC packs charge more slowly than Panasonic NCA packs (although maybe not as slowly as they did before a late-2021 software update), and the kWh capacity is obviously lower.
But there are some mentions about the LG packs having better cold weather performance (acceleration) at low SOC.
Are there any other advantages for the LG NMC packs over the Panasonic NCA packs? I'm specifically wondering about other cold-weather stuff, like max regen when the battery pack is cold and Supercharging speeds when the pack is cold, both of which are quite poor in my 2018 Model 3 with a NCA battery. (When compared to a previous EV that I owned with NMC cells, the regen in my Tesla with NCA when the battery is cold is dramatically lower than in my old EV with NMC. But idk if that’s an NMC vs NCA thing or just a Tesla thing.)
Thanks!
Last edited:
zef3215
Member
I read somewhere that NMC chemistry has slightly lower degradation than NCA. I drive an M3 LR with one of the early 2021 LG packs and in cold weather I could not see any difference in acceleration comparing with warm. I’m not living in a country with extreme cold weather so maybe I’m not the best example but in 3 years I only experience once (during a holiday in France) when it looks like the car was not charging at all for something like 2-3 minutes due to cold battery after which all looked ok. For comparison with NCA, behaviour in cold climate and some tips & tricks on cold weather, I recommend watching some materials of Tesla Bjorn on YouTube.Now that LG NMC packs are being used in the US for Model 3-LR vehicles, I'm suddenly interested in this topic.
It seems clear that the LG NMC packs charge more slowly than Panasonic NCA packs (although maybe not as slowly as they did before a late-2021 software update), and the kWh capacity is obviously lower.
But there are some mentions about the LG packs having better cold weather performance (acceleration) at low SOC.
Are there any other advantages for the LG NMC packs over the Panasonic NCA packs? I'm specifically wondering about other cold-weather stuff, like max regen when the battery pack is cold and Supercharging speeds when the pack is cold, both of which are quite poor in my 2018 Model 3 with a NCA battery. (When compared to a previous EV that I owned with NMC cells, the regen in my Tesla with NCA when the battery is cold is dramatically lower than in my old EV with NMC. But idk if that’s an NMC vs NCA thing or just a Tesla thing.)
Thanks!
I also have some interesting Tesla videos on my channel, few of them on some cold weather, some will say not cold enough thought. Enjoy!
There's a very informative thread over on TFF Forum by @eivissa that compares the 3L and 5L batteries.
This link shows that the power of the 3L is always greater than the 5L, except below 16% to 22% SoC, depending upon temperature.
This later link confirms that the power from the 3L is capped to 430kW above 27C cell temperature, which is a much lower temperature than I had previously understood was required to achieve maximum performance.
This link shows that the 3L has to be 10C warmer and 10% lower in SoC to give the same regeneration performance as the 5L.
This link shows that the power of the 3L is always greater than the 5L, except below 16% to 22% SoC, depending upon temperature.
This later link confirms that the power from the 3L is capped to 430kW above 27C cell temperature, which is a much lower temperature than I had previously understood was required to achieve maximum performance.
This link shows that the 3L has to be 10C warmer and 10% lower in SoC to give the same regeneration performance as the 5L.
Thank you for replying.....but I have to be honest I am confused...you said that the 3L has to be warmer and have a lower charged to be equal in regeneration as the 5L...so why doesn’t that make the 5L more efficient at regen ?
...thank you 
brainhouston
Active Member
i haven't read the whole thread so sorry if its been posted..
does anyone have reference for Start month/year for all 3 battery types? or can it be derived from VIN?
i'm in a market for used M3/P but from salvage auctions so won't have access to battery label n such...
does anyone have reference for Start month/year for all 3 battery types? or can it be derived from VIN?
i'm in a market for used M3/P but from salvage auctions so won't have access to battery label n such...
Model 3 Performance in the US Market:
Panasonic 3 78kWh NCA until Q3/2020.
Pansonic 3L 82kWh NCA from Q4/2020 until today.
LG Chem 5L 79kWh NMC...never in the US M3P AFAIK!
Possibly not statistically relevant but I just passed 20k miles in my 3L equipped M3P. It’s showing 17 miles (5%) loss of EPA range and 75.x kWh energy from multiplying average consumption by range in the energy app.
I actually gained a few ‘lost’ miles by letting it sit at 100% for a few hours rather than rushing off to get it back under 90%.
I expect it will drop a little more now the ambient temperature is falling.
I actually gained a few ‘lost’ miles by letting it sit at 100% for a few hours rather than rushing off to get it back under 90%.
I expect it will drop a little more now the ambient temperature is falling.
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