Percentage or Miles/Kilometers : which do you use and why?

[darth_vad3r]

It isn't about taking periodic blocks of X# miles (minutes) of consumption, but a constant calculation that updates say every 10 seconds using the average of the last X# miles (minutes) selected. If I am driving my regular route this would be very reliable 95% of the time. If all of the sudden the highway is shut down to a crawl for a roll over I would expect that calculation to change accordingly the longer I am in that situation. It is the most relevant data for a driver trying to achieve MILES (not percentage of charge) of movement to get to a destination. Basically, it is just displaying the same data used in Nav on the miles remaining display but in a different presentation if no destination is entered.

They’ve already done this (with the provided 6 set choices), and I find it pretty useless, I doubt adding a custom choice would make it any better

6 choices are 10, 25, 50km and whatever the miles options are ... 5, 15, 30?

This isn’t useful for trips, the rated miles and trip chart crush this for a trip.

It might be useful for a repeated round trip commute, but people doing the same trip every day probably learn pretty quick how much they use if they are looking at the gauge... or you are plugging in daily and don’t look because you always have enough for the commute every day

 

[LandToSea]

They’ve already done this (with the provided 6 set choices), and I find it pretty useless, I doubt adding a custom choice would make it any better

6 choices are 10, 25, 50km and whatever the miles options are ... 5, 15, 30?

This isn’t useful for trips, the rated miles and trip chart crush this for a trip.

It might be useful for a repeated round trip commute, but people doing the same trip every day probably learn pretty quick how much they use if they are looking at the gauge... or you are plugging in daily and don’t look because you always have enough for the commute every day

Well I guess I am an exception then? What you describe is my life. 25k miles a year, same commute, same conditions with the occasional interruption maybe 5% of the time. The variables outside of abnormal traffic patterns being rain, temperature, battery used for sentry, sidetracked by an errand or meeting, Dodge Demon pulls up at a light... When I leave work I need to know if my trip home needs to be detoured for a top off at a supercharger or not. Last night I made it home with 3% remaining. I may better adapt over time as you mention since I am a new convert, but as an analyst I still fell this data is most relevant to the end goal of using a POV, travelling distances.

I see you defer to the trip chart and all I am proposing is replace the rated data with that data. I don't want to have the trip chart up all of the time. I rather have the singular data point displayed where the useless rated data is currently. Rated data is absolutely irrelevant to a driver needing a gauge of resources specific to their circumstances at a given point so why have it?

 

[JulienW]

Considering the tech in this car that concern can be resolved easily with some programming and giving user control. Allow drivers to set the parameters by selecting a revolving time or miles for use in the miles remaining calculation. This is how ICE calculations work so why not in EV? In ICE cars the computer uses the mpg from the most recent consumption to calculate the miles remaining to "empty". Given the advanced OS of the Tesla we could simply choose for example; Use the last 5 minutes consumption efficiency average to determine miles remaining. As conditions change the calculation values change constantly.


This is really rather simple and gives the most relevant data to the driver so I feel it is what we should all be pushing for instead or debating which sub-par option is best.

My ELR did this so each time you got in it may have a deferent number for (estimated) miles. On the forum we called it the Guess-o-meter.

 

[LandToSea]

My ELR did this so each time you got in it may have a deferent number for (estimated) miles. On the forum we called it the Guess-o-meter.

I don't see how using a proven formula based on data points most relevant to the current time frame is more guessing than ANY other method. It is the most EDUCATED estimate possible.

 

[David29]

It isn't about taking periodic blocks of X# miles (minutes) of consumption, but a constant calculation that updates say every 10 seconds using the average of the last X# miles (minutes) selected. If I am driving my regular route this would be very reliable 95% of the time. If all of the sudden the highway is shut down to a crawl for a roll over I would expect that calculation to change accordingly the longer I am in that situation. It is the most relevant data for a driver trying to achieve MILES (not percentage of charge) of movement to get to a destination. Basically, it is just displaying the same data used in Nav on the miles remaining display but in a different presentation if no destination is entered.

How is that different from what the Energy app does now? You can choose the distance (5, 15, 30 miles or "instantaneous") and it updates periodically, not sure how often, but certainly it seems to be nearly continuous.....

 

[darth_vad3r]

How is that different from what the Energy app does now? You can choose the distance (5, 15, 30 miles or "instantaneous") and it updates periodically, not sure how often, but certainly it seems to be nearly continuous.....

They want a custom distance like e.g. “17 miles” to presumably match their commute.

 

[timk225]

I use miles. I tried percentage for a few weeks, and it was ok, but I went back to miles.

 

[LandToSea]

How is that different from what the Energy app does now? You can choose the distance (5, 15, 30 miles or "instantaneous") and it updates periodically, not sure how often, but certainly it seems to be nearly continuous.....

I don't want to have to leave the graph open to monitor the level. It seems intuitive to use that data as the battery indicator volume always visible instead of the useless number derived from an EPA data.

 

[Rocky_H]

I don't want to have to leave the graph open to monitor the level. It seems intuitive to use that data as the battery indicator volume always visible instead of the useless number derived from an EPA data.

In these discussions, I'm finding that people seem to not get that the displays are supposed to be for different things.

The tiny battery display with a number on it is a fuel gauge. It is supposed to indicate how much energy is left, in whatever units that may be. It is not supposed to be the display that is trying to predict projected travel distance by several continually changing variables and fluctuating wildly up and down with driving habits and temperatures and uphill and downhill. That is what the other displays like the Energy app and Nav % remaining estimate are for.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don't want to have to leave the graph open to monitor the level. It seems intuitive to use that data as the battery indicator volume always visible instead of the useless number derived from an EPA data.

You don’t have to leave it open. You can just use the nav prediction; it is the same. The graph is just for understanding *when* you will use energy. Provides peace of mind.

There is not really any other way to determine how much energy you will have left on arrival - neither percentage nor “miles” will help with that. (There is no fixed mapping from these two types of meters to range, as they provide information only about energy.)

 

[LandToSea]

In these discussions, I'm finding that people seem to not get that the displays are supposed to be for different things.

The tiny battery display with a number on it is a fuel gauge. It is supposed to indicate how much energy is left, in whatever units that may be. It is not supposed to be the display that is trying to predict projected travel distance by several continually changing variables and fluctuating wildly up and down with driving habits and temperatures and uphill and downhill. That is what the other displays like the Energy app and Nav % remaining estimate are for.

It isn't a matter of not getting it. It is a matter of communicating to the community what would be ideal which is user control. The capability is well within the system's reach, it just needs some minor programming to allow more user preference setting in menu displays. The EPA calculation is completely useless, so why have it even as an option?

 

[jerry33]

It isn't a matter of not getting it. It is a matter of communicating to the community what would be ideal which is user control. The capability is well within the system's reach, it just needs some minor programming to allow more user preference setting in menu displays. The EPA calculation is completely useless, so why have it even as an option?

Actually, it's not because you soon learn how your driving compares with the EPA.

 

[LandToSea]

Actually, it's not because you soon learn how your driving compares with the EPA.

How is that relevant to my real life needs? EPA conditions being controlled within a specified assumption is completely irrelevant to my commutes and environmental demands. There is no scientific or statistical relevancy between that formula and each individuals owner's driving demands.

 

[Rocky_H]

The EPA calculation is completely useless,

Actually, it's not because you soon learn how your driving compares with the EPA.

Exactly. It's like anything else that has some standard measurements that are a little off by some margin from your preferences. Like most cans of coffee show recommended ratios of coffee scoops to water. I know that those are usually more strong/bitter than I like, so I know that I probably need to start with a bit less coffee grounds. Or maybe you know that certain types of recipes the way most people make them are a bit too salty or not sweet enough for you, so you maybe ballpark with a little less or more of something. Or weather/temperature displays use a standard kind of measurement of degrees, and each person figures whether that seems cool or hot based on what they are going to wear or whether they are normally more of a hot-natured or cold-natured person, etc.

(I would have said something about clothing sizes, but those are pretty messed up and not very standardized.)

 

[Rocky_H]

How is that relevant to my real life needs?

A fuel gauge is not supposed to.

EPA conditions being controlled within a specified assumption is completely irrelevant to my commutes and environmental demands. There is no scientific or statistical relevancy between that formula and each individuals owner's driving demands.

That is what the energy apps do.

 

[jerry33]

How is that relevant to my real life needs? EPA conditions being controlled within a specified assumption is completely irrelevant to my commutes and environmental demands. There is no scientific or statistical relevancy between that formula and each individuals owner's driving demands.

If you typically drive 20% under or 20% over the EPA estimate, you'll know about what to expect. Mostly it's a non-issue because most driving is done around town where the range limits are never tested. On a trip, the Nav system and the trip graph give you the information you need.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The EPA calculation is completely useless, so why have it even as an option?

Because I want to know how much energy I have left. This is a portable, (mostly) unfiltered quantity I can use myself to get a "feel" for what I can do based on where I'll be driving, how fast, etc.

Between this information and the trip % estimator, it's just about perfect; everything I could need to know is provided.

I far prefer the direct energy display over the guess-o-meter in my Spark EV, which was based on my past driving habits - which are largely completely irrelevant (it's kind of like the range (not the nav-based one) predictor on the Energy page in the Tesla, which is similarly mostly useless).

 

[darth_vad3r]

How is that relevant to my real life needs? EPA conditions being controlled within a specified assumption is completely irrelevant to my commutes and environmental demands. There is no scientific or statistical relevancy between that formula and each individuals owner's driving demands.

It is more relevant to your real life needs than a fluctuating energy gauge. If I know it takes 80 EPA miles for a 70 mile commute to and back from work, and I leave in the morning with 90 EPA miles of energy in my battery, I can feel comfortable about making the return trip even if I don’t get the opportunity to charge at work.

If my alternate flexible guess-o-meter said 90 “guessed miles” of range, I wouldn’t know if I could trust that. Did I drive more efficiently this weekend and so it is over-estimating my range vs “normal”?

Consistency is what you want in a fuel gauge, not something that goes down and UP.

It’s a fuel gauge, not a “range remaining” gauge. 90 EPA miles is 90 EPA miles. Same today as tomorrow.

Look at the energy app 2 or 3 times next time you are in the car, once at the start, once mid-trip at a light, once at the end. See how wildly the range remaining can vary on the 3 different distance displays.

 

[LandToSea]

Because I want to know how much energy I have left. This is a portable, (mostly) unfiltered quantity I can use myself to get a "feel" for what I can do based on where I'll be driving, how fast, etc.

You are relying on a standardized value within a calculation instead of the immediate variables effecting efficiency. This isn't how scientific calculation works for a very good reason. There is a better way and the car is capable of producing that data is the point. Whether anyone here "likes" what they are currently getting is not relevant to the facts.

 

[LandToSea]

Consistency is what you want in a fuel gauge, not something that goes down and UP.

It’s a fuel gauge, not a “range remaining” gauge. 90 EPA miles is 90 EPA miles. Same today as tomorrow.
.

Consistent irrelevancy is NOT what I want.

Everyone understands that. I have stated this....point being that the OPTION should be there to change the view as it is in an ICE car.