Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[SammichLover]

I fully expect that even with a full charge the Tesla GPS routing software will tell me to stop in Birmingham since the full distance will drop the reserve below some preprogrammed GPS battery "safe arrival" level. If so, this means I will have to willfully skip Birmingham despite the Tesla GPS insistence I stop to charge which is not what I want to do because the Supercharger lot is a pay-to-park and a real time-suck to get into and out of.

You can press the Remove Charging Stops at the bottom of the turn by turn as a manual override and it'll cheerily report an estimated SOC at arrival. Sometimes this will be negative and red.

I would recommend stopping anyway unless there is something really bad about the SC. More stops with charging to lower SOC at each is almost always faster overall. In per minute charging price states it is also a lot cheaper.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I would recommend stopping anyway unless there is something really bad about the SC. More stops with charging to lower SOC at each is almost always faster overall.

It sounds like that Birmingham one is pretty awful.

What do you mean by the above? Specifically in this case, pretty sure the Birmingham stop would be wasteful even if it were a good Supercharger, because he'd be at something like 50-60% battery, which would be awful - you might not have to stop for long, but it sure would be slow (probably only 70-100kW at most for the 10% charge you pick up there). I'm assuming all the Superchargers in question here are 150kW; I haven't looked to see if any are the 72kW dogs.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

You can press the Remove Charging Stops at the bottom of the turn by turn as a manual override and it'll cheerily report an estimated SOC at arrival.

I was not aware of this feature. I will certainly try it out! Getting nagged by a computer while driving is a pain in the . . .

 

[SammichLover]

Specifically in this case, pretty sure the Birmingham stop would be wasteful even if it were a good Supercharger, because he'd be at something like 50-60% battery, which would be awful -

Oops, I missed that part. Yeah, if you're starting at high enough SOC that it would be that high there that wouldn't be a good stop unless needed.

Let me look up Birmingham....oh, right. Yeah, I stopped there. If that construction is still going on, ug. . They're pulling the Interstate apart. That was so messed up finding my way back out to continue West. Apple, Google, and Nav's maps were near useless finding your way out. You have to take Rev Abraham Woods all the way to I65 to head north/south/west, ignore all nav instructions otherwise.

<edit> WRONG WRONG WRONG. It is 6th you have to take, there's no onramp at Rev Abraham Woods. Yeah, I lost about 20-30min, in heavy rain at night, finding my way out of that maze. I'm not even sure where the Southbound onramp is? LOL

And it is kinda goofy in that you need to pay for parking too (!) during certain hours. Past about 6pm though just drive in, ignore the "you must pay" signs. The pizza place is decent. They might also validate during daytime business hours? I forget now.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The pizza place is decent. They might also validate during daytime business hours? I forget now.

First Sammiches, now pizza! Makes me hungry.

I understand what you were saying now...you were saying it makes more sense on a trip to get down to 0%, Supercharge just enough to get to the next Supercharger, and then charge again, so your average SoC upon arrival at the Supercharger is low, and your average SoC upon leaving the Supercharger, are as low as possible. More stops, lower SoC at each. Just like you said. EDIT: Results in the maximum average charge rate. EDIT: as you say, maybe not 0% - use 8%, again to maximize the average charge rate.

As you say, not immediately applicable in this case since @Ticobird will presumably be starting at home or with 100% somehow. If that's not the case, the strategy changes.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is 6th you have to take, there's no onramp at Rev Abraham Woods. Yeah, I lost about 20-30min, in heavy rain at night, finding my way out of that maze. I'm not even sure where the Southbound onramp is? LOL

Sounds pretty great!

 

[SammichLover]

I understand what you were saying now...you were saying it makes more sense on a trip to get down to 0%,

About 8%, because if you get too low the SC needs to bring you a bit before it brings the heat. But exactly.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

As you say, not immediately applicable in this case since @Ticobird will presumably be starting at home or with 100% somehow.

Actually I plan to leave home nearby and fill the battery to 100% while I eat breakfast at the nearby IHOP.

 

[SammichLover]

Sounds pretty great!

I didn't even mention the clusters of people I drove by, who were standing on corners beside burning 55gal drums. Presumable keeping themselves warm....or auditioning for the next Mad Max sequel?

No, I'm not joking.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Actually I plan to leave home nearby and fill the battery to 100% while I eat breakfast at the nearby IHOP.

Sammiches, then pizza. Now pancakes? I'm getting hungry.

 

[UngaBunga1989]

All I can say is I use 100+ more kwh on my model 3 p than my wife's rwd one

And what if you swap cars and each drive the other one? An incredible amount of range depends on driving style...by way of example in our 2016 Volt I have fairly easily (and routinely) gotten 68 miles out of a full charge when the weather cooperates and I don't need climate control. My wife (who now drives the car because I have an M3P) has never gotten more than 50...

 

[UngaBunga1989]

I have a stock M3P with 20" wheels and PS4S tires. Without climate control I have zero problem getting the advertised range (or averaging 250 Wh/mi). Two days per week I have a 68 mile roundtrip commute to NYC with a 500' elevation change (downhill going and uphill coming home). Traffic varies, but its roughly 50% highway at 65mph and 50% city driving (usually stop and go averaging around 25mph). On the out leg I am often at or under 200 Wh/mi, coming home usually around 275Wh/mi with the trip average normally between 230 and 240 Wh/mi.

I am NOT babying the car to achieve these numbers, but I am also not stomping on the accelerator every chance I get either. When I use the car like a performance toy or run the heat constantly on a really cold day my average can get well up into the mid 300's. But over the 4,000 miles I have owned the car (took delivery 12/28/18) I am averaging 285 Wh/mi and this number is steadily coming down as the first four months of ownership it was winter and involved a lot of cold morning commutes with heat.

People that say that you cannot get the advertised 250 Wh/mi in the M3P with 20" wheels and stock tires are either living in consistently cold climates and/or drive their cars hard. Nothing wrong with either, just don't blame the car!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’m going to have to quibble just a little with this. I believe your numbers, but I disagree that you are getting the “advertised” range (it will be interesting to get the report back from @Ticobird after he finishes his Alabama trip).

The range is relevant for a speed close to highway speeds - say about 60-65mph. People expect to be able to travel ~300 miles at this speed on a full charge.

You would never be able to do this with a P3D with PS4S, while you can if you have MXM4s, that is my disagreement here. The tires make a massive difference.

You can’t get the advertised range with the PS4S.

EDIT: as @mswlogo says - this is not a surprise, the EPA test was not done with PS4S, so you should only expect to get close to the range with MXM4s with aeros.

Without climate control I have zero problem getting the advertised range (or averaging 250 Wh/mi). Two days per week I have a 68 mile roundtrip commute to NYC with a 500' elevation change (downhill going and uphill coming home). Traffic varies, but its roughly 50% highway at 65mph and 50% city driving (usually stop and go averaging around 25mph).

So what is your average speed over 68 miles? (How long does the journey take?) It sounds like 45mph. That is quite slow and you have minimal aero losses, so if you were getting the advertised range you should be doing much better than 250Wh/mi at that speed. As a point of reference, my brother’s P3D with MXM4s (see above) did 247Wh/mi at an average speed of 68mph over 195miles (huge stretches at 77mph). That is way, way better than you. He can actually get very close to the advertised range in his P3D. He also had aeros on which helps a bit.

You would do much better with MXM4s for this journey and in general even without aero covers.

people that say that you cannot get the advertised 250 Wh/mi in the M3P with 20" wheels and stock tires are either living in consistently cold climates and/or drive their cars hard. Nothing wrong with either, just don't blame the car!

I don’t blame the car, I blame the tires. (Which are awesome tires by the way, and considerably better than the MXM4s in other ways).

I will finally get a chance to drive from San Diego to LA this week and do a long, flat trip at moderate freeway speeds (70-80mph, maybe slower, but with traffic so some drafting). I fully expect to see worse results than my brother even though my average speed will likely be lower.

The best I have done before on a long trip is 260Wh/mi-270Wh/mi - but that was not on freeways - so closer to 50mph average speed on moderately twisting rural county roads - with over 5000 feet cumulative elevation gain (zero net gain). So one factor was positive and one factor negative. Might have been similar to your 250Wh/mi at 50mph average speed if it had been flat and a bit more straight.

Anyway I will report sometime this week.

 

[mswlogo]

I’m going to have to quibble just a little with this. I believe your numbers, but I disagree that you are getting the “advertised” range (it will be interesting to get the report back from @Ticobird after he finishes his Alabama trip).

The range is relevant for a speed close to highway speeds - say about 60-65mph. People expect to be able to travel ~300 miles at this speed on a full charge.

You would never be able to do this with a P3D with PS4S, while you can if you have MXM4s, that is my disagreement here. The tires make a massive difference.

You can’t get the advertised range with the PS4S.



So what is your average speed over 68 miles? (How long does the journey take?). It sounds like 45mph. That is quite slow and you have minimal aero losses, so if you were getting the advertised range you should be doing much better than 250Wh/mi. As a point of reference, my brother’s P3D with MXM4s (see above) did 247Wh/mi at an average speed of 68mph. That is way, way better than you. He can actually get very close to the advertised range in his P3D. He also had aeros on which helps a bit.

You would do much better with MXM4s for this journey and in general even without aero covers.



I don’t blame the car, I blame the tires. (Which are awesome tires by the way, and considerably better than the MXM4s in other ways).

I will finally get a chance to drive from San Diego to LA this week and do a long, flat trip at moderate freeway speeds (70-80mph, maybe slower, but with traffic so some drafting). I fully expect to see worse results than my brother even though my average speed will likely be lower.

The best I have done before on a long trip is 260Wh/mi-270Wh/mi - but that was not on freeways - so closer to 50mph average speed on moderately twisting rural county roads - with over 5000 feet cumulative elevation gain (zero net gain). So one factor was positive and one factor negative. Might have been similar to your 250Wh/mi at 50mph average speed if it had been flat and straight.

Anyway I will report sometime this week.

One problem with your post. The PS4S tires have never had an advertised range rating. All cars were tested by EPA with Aero’s.

One thing lacking in a lot of posts besides average speeds is tire pressure. It can make huge difference too. And some folks don’t use the door sticker guide.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

One problem with your post. The PS4S tires have never had an advertised range rating. All cars were tested by EPA with Aero’s.

One thing lacking in a lot of posts besides average speeds is tire pressure. It can make huge difference too. And some folks don’t use the door sticker guide.

I understand. (Edited post.) I never expected to get the advertised range because I understood the tires were not what were tested to get the advertised range. I knew I would have to buy another set if I wanted to have a bit more convenience (less Supercharging) on a longer road trip. Agreed - should have made that more clear, thought it was kind of clear from context.

I will be using 45PSI cold for my trip this week. Maybe even 46. With the low profile I think it gives slightly more protection to the wheels as well as an efficiency improvement. I do sometimes corner hard so hopefully wear across the tread will end up pretty even over time. Plus there was that one autocross so I definitely need to wear down the middle a bit more right now!

 

[UngaBunga1989]

I

The range is relevant for a speed close to highway speeds - say about 60-65mph. People expect to be able to travel ~300 miles at this speed on a full charge.

You would never be able to do this with a P3D with PS4S, while you can if you have MXM4s, that is my disagreement here. The tires make a massive difference.

You can’t get the advertised range with the PS4S.

So what is your average speed over 68 miles? (How long does the journey take?) It sounds like 45mph. That is quite slow and you have minimal aero losses, so if you were getting the advertised range you should be doing much better than 250Wh/mi at that speed. As a point of reference, my brother’s P3D with MXM4s (see above) did 247Wh/mi at an average speed of 68mph over 195miles (huge stretches at 77mph). That is way, way better than you. He can actually get very close to the advertised range in his P3D. He also had aeros on which helps a bit.

I don’t blame the car, I blame the tires. (Which are awesome tires by the way, and considerably better than the MXM4s in other ways).

I completely disagree. I can and do get that kind of efficiency with the PS4S (42 psi all around) on the highway at between 60 and 70mph. Stop and go in traffic is actually worse for a car this heavy IME than cruising at 60-65 mph. So, while my commute comment in my previous post probably IS based on an average of around 45 mph, the NYC portion in slow, stop and go traffic actually REDUCES the efficiency (I watch the average Wh/mi go UP for those stretches).

Just today I took my daughter out for a ride in the car. 62 miles roundtrip with all but 5 miles on the highway at an average of between 60 and 70 mph with the A/C on at least 50% of the time (set at 70 degrees and it was 74 degrees out). Little to no elevation gain. We averaged 252 Wh/mi and that included several very spirited accelerations. If I kept the A/C off (on a slightly cooler or cloudy day) and kept the speed at 60 I would likely have averaged around 235 Wh/mi.

 

[manttium]

I had a LR model 3 with 18” Aeros for about a year, and then recently upgraded to a P3D. I have a fairly hilly commute, but very moderate weather. Over 7,000 miles in my LR with Aeros to 42 psi without caps, I was averaging 248Wh/mi.

On my new P3D, in the same commuting pattern and driving conditions (which includes flooring it every once in a while - same as before), I’m averaging about 285Wh/mi over ~700 miles.

So the P3D with stock 20s is definitely noticeably worse, at least in my driving conditions.

 

[StealthP3D]

The range is relevant for a speed close to highway speeds - say about 60-65mph. People expect to be able to travel ~300 miles at this speed on a full charge.

The EPA rated range is based on a mixed drive cycle, not any particular steady state speed. For any given EV, there will always be a steady state speed that achieves the rated range under certain ambient conditions but that is not what the rated range represents.

 

[kbecks13]

People that say that you cannot get the advertised 250 Wh/mi in the M3P with 20" wheels and stock tires are either living in consistently cold climates and/or drive their cars hard. Nothing wrong with either, just don't blame the car!

You cannot get that rated range anywhere near as easily as in a RWD car. I have owned both and the RWD car could EASILY get 200-220 wh/mile. With the same exact style of driving, P3D can maybe get 280-300 wh/mile.

 

[Jeff Hudson]

Now this is why I stay connected to the Tesla community on teslamotorsclub.com. It never crossed my mind the EPA testing was only performed with the 18" Aero's. I did initially pay attention to early discussions about mileage differences between using Aero covers and removed. I think it was either Tesla that stated or maybe Elon stated the Aero's provide a 5% improvement on the EPA testing procedures. Consequently I now understand the reasoning and data differences behind the increased range of the 18" Aero's with Michelin MXM's vs the 20" Michelin PS4S. I also now have a much better understanding of why the 20" Michelin PS4S is not as efficient as the 18" MXM.

After considering this new data I believe I will change my routing plans and charge at the Steele, AL Supercharger and then again at the Greenville, AL Supercharger. The Steele, AL Supercharger route is 26 miles further to Greenville, AL but avoiding the aggravation of dealing with the Birmingham, AL Supercharger traffic is more important to me. Timewise the longer route is probably a wash. Lastly, I do not especially like to push the range envelope by skipping a midway stop unless I have a few really good reasons to do so, e.g., good weather with wind at my back and I'm pressed for time might do it for me.