Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[GTIceman]

Getting the range is one thing, my car when fully charged doesn't even show greater than ~290 miles.

 

[Paddy3101]

So with that info do we still think Tesla used them on the P3D+ for the purpose of getting the EPA rated range of 310?

They probably used the Performance 3 without the PUP option package. (or P3D- spec). So this then is effectively exactly the same as a LR AWD in terms of range/mileage.

Don't know the regulations, but pretty sure manufacturers don't have to test all combinations of options that can be fitted to a car

Subsequently the Performance 3 migrated such that the PUP option became mandatory fitment.

Would image BMW does the same with M3 vs M3 Competition etc.

 

[bhzmark]

Unplugged Performance did a pretty in-depth study of drag on the Tesla Model 3: Independent Aerodynamic Study of Tesla Model 3 by Unplugged Performance

Interesting -- and they conclude: "By installing three simple upgrades (front and rear spoiler and lowering springs), the Model 3’s drag coefficient was reduced from baseline by 0.049, total aerodynamic drag was reduced by 21%, and, simultaneously, both front and rear downforce were increased."

UNPLUGGED PERFORMANCE MODERATE DUAL RATE LINEAR LOWERING SPRING SET
"The vehicle’s total drag after lowering factory ride height of 28.5 inches to 27.0 inches (measured at center of the front fender) was reduced by 8.1%. This further lessened the vehicle’s total drag coefficient (Cd) by 0.019."

UNPLUGGED PERFORMANCE HIGH EFFICIENCY REAR SPOILER
"The total vehicle drag was reduced by 6.3% relative to the factory car baseline, representing a 273% relative improvement over the optional factory rear spoiler. Rear downforce was increased over baseline by 83.7%, representing a 241% relative improvement. This reduction of drag reduced the total drag coefficient (Cd) by 0.015."

UNPLUGGED PERFORMANCE FRONT LIP SPOILER
"This product provides a 6.6% total decrease in vehicle drag; a 236% better relative outcome than removing the vehicle mirrors. This result further reduces the total drag coefficient by 0.015. Of additional interest, the front lip spoiler provided a 35.4% improvement in front downforce."

REMOVING FACTORY MIRRORS
"From a factory baseline Tesla Model 3, it was determined that removing the mirrors entirely resulted in a 2.8% total decrease in vehicle drag and a reduction of Cd by 0.006."

TESLA FACTORY REAR SPOILER (AVAILABLE ON PERFORMANCE VARIANT MODEL 3)
"The vehicle’s total drag was reduced by 2.3% and the rear downforce was increased over baseline by 34.7%. This reduced the total drag coefficient (Cd) by 0.005."

 

[gilscales]

I think that's what I read. It's OK to do that according to the EPA rules.
But probably won't be in the future. My opinion.

Does seem very shady if that is what they did.

 

[Dan_LA]

Not sure why that impacts efficiency?

I ask because i was just on the same numbers one day at 112 miles driven and I had 100 miles left, i charge 90% always, and was 285 wh/mi... technically i should have a range of 263mi (75k/285) if full, but when for real I would get probably 220 miles. I was never able to get more than 220 miles, not even driving like Grandma. And we are on Summer.

When I had the range beast LR RWD, numbers were very precise. If showed 274 miles that would be the range I was getting.

For 3P+... that has been a challenge. I trie to enjoy regardless, but on top that i am paying $80k for a $50k now car after 8 months. Yea I am not that happy considering all.

Just got the rear spoiler, I am thinking maybe lowering the car, adding front spoiler and maybe when I change tires, range can be around 260... for a freakin advertised 310 miles car.

 

[Dan_LA]

Can someone that have the M3 LR RWD with the Tesla 20” wheel post their experience? That would kill this whole argument about all being the 20” wheel.

I also suspect my front motor has some sort of issue. Was sent to service they couldn’t tell since I didn't provide exact minute of the turtle icon saying front motor was temporarily off, which happened 2 times. They just said they updated car and might been a software bug.

 

[Wennfred]

Loss of like 8 miles out of 50,000 miles is great.

 

[Wennfred]

Interesting -- and they conclude: "By installing three simple upgrades (front and rear spoiler and lowering springs), the Model 3’s drag coefficient was reduced from baseline by 0.049, total aerodynamic drag was reduced by 21%, and, simultaneously, both front and rear downforce were increased."

UNPLUGGED PERFORMANCE MODERATE DUAL RATE LINEAR LOWERING SPRING SET
"The vehicle’s total drag after lowering factory ride height of 28.5 inches to 27.0 inches (measured at center of the front fender) was reduced by 8.1%. This further lessened the vehicle’s total drag coefficient (Cd) by 0.019."

UNPLUGGED PERFORMANCE HIGH EFFICIENCY REAR SPOILER
"The total vehicle drag was reduced by 6.3% relative to the factory car baseline, representing a 273% relative improvement over the optional factory rear spoiler. Rear downforce was increased over baseline by 83.7%, representing a 241% relative improvement. This reduction of drag reduced the total drag coefficient (Cd) by 0.015."

UNPLUGGED PERFORMANCE FRONT LIP SPOILER
"This product provides a 6.6% total decrease in vehicle drag; a 236% better relative outcome than removing the vehicle mirrors. This result further reduces the total drag coefficient by 0.015. Of additional interest, the front lip spoiler provided a 35.4% improvement in front downforce."

REMOVING FACTORY MIRRORS
"From a factory baseline Tesla Model 3, it was determined that removing the mirrors entirely resulted in a 2.8% total decrease in vehicle drag and a reduction of Cd by 0.006."

TESLA FACTORY REAR SPOILER (AVAILABLE ON PERFORMANCE VARIANT MODEL 3)
"The vehicle’s total drag was reduced by 2.3% and the rear downforce was increased over baseline by 34.7%. This reduced the total drag coefficient (Cd) by 0.005."

I haven’t found anyone or have seen any YouTube videos that has put this set up to the test. Post a link if you find someone with numbers.

Thanks

 

[ibGeek]

Hi,

Is there anyone having issues with Performance range? After 1,000 miles driven and 10,000 driven RWD, I am not getting even 200 miles I guess... while they advertise 310 miles.

Cheers!

-Dan

Dan, a lot of it depends on how you drive and what mode you have your car in. You should get the mileage provided you are in standard mode. I have a base plus and it easily gets the advertised 240 miles. (usually slightly more) Of course there is terrain and other factors that can adversely effect range. There is also battery calibration.

Question: If you change your battery indicator from miles to percentage and then charge to 100 percent, does it get there?
If no, then it is a service issue, if yes then your batteries are fine but may need calibration.

If you answered yes, then what Tesla recommends is that you deplete your battery down to between 10-15% and then charge to 100%. This should improve the projected mileage. This should be done a couple times a year. Normal charging should be to around 90%.

Something to look at:

When you set your navigation to a location (preferably a longer trip), every once in a while open the "Energy" app. It will tell you if your driving is better or worse than what the car is projecting on a graph and show you what your battery percentage will be when you arrive at your destination based on your current driving style. Your car's mileage rating was set with an average highway speed of around 70 MPH in mind.


Tesla rates the mileage of their cars more accurately than almost any other car on the road today. For instance, the 2013 Toyota Prius that I sold to get my Tesla had a rated MPG of 51. It actually got around 46. With a 10 gallon tank that's a difference of 50 miles.
Or the 2019 Nissan leaf that says it gets 124 miles of range but you only really get 60. There are 3 major standards to rate mileage that I'm aware of, most are a joke.

 

[Dan_LA]

Dan, a lot of it depends on how you drive and what mode you have your car in. You should get the mileage provided you are in standard mode. I have a base plus and it easily gets the advertised 240 miles. (usually slightly more) Of course there is terrain and other factors that can adversely effect range. There is also battery calibration.

Question: If you change your battery indicator from miles to percentage and then charge to 100 percent, does it get there?
If no, then it is a service issue, if yes then your batteries are fine but may need calibration.

If you answered yes, then what Tesla recommends is that you deplete your battery down to between 10-15% and then charge to 100%. This should improve the projected mileage. This should be done a couple times a year. Normal charging should be to around 90%.

Something to look at:

When you set your navigation to a location (preferably a longer trip), every once in a while open the "Energy" app. It will tell you if your driving is better or worse than what the car is projecting on a graph and show you what your battery percentage will be when you arrive at your destination based on your current driving style. Your car's mileage rating was set with an average highway speed of around 70 MPH in mind.


Tesla rates the mileage of their cars more accurately than almost any other car on the road today. For instance, the 2013 Toyota Prius that I sold to get my Tesla had a rated MPG of 51. It actually got around 46. With a 10 gallon tank that's a difference of 50 miles.
Or the 2019 Nissan leaf that says it gets 124 miles of range but you only really get 60. There are 3 major standards to rate mileage that I'm aware of, most are a joke.

When I say Grandma mode, is driving 75MPH in average, at Non Sport Mode, Brake Regen on low, not high.

Curious where did you get that info about battery, that was a major issue I brought up early this year that I couldn't charge 100%, was always 98-99% and would take forever... when with the LR RWD it was easy, always in the morning 100%. Not with the 3P+. I called Tesla 4 times, they told me to hard reset the car, press both wheel buttons, and wait 5 min until car is back.

I will try the 100% thing again, but pretty sure still same, I can only charge up to 98-99%.. also when on SC same thing... it doesn't go 100%.

The graph always tells me 180 miles range... when fully charge at 90%, although the green bar says 274 miles always...

I agree on the Tesla Range statement as I have driven also model S loaners and is pretty accurate sometimes... many times I feel they eat more like 485 wh/miles... due to being heavier. Also when i had the LW RWD it was very very accurate, I was able to from Ontario to Las Vegas by stopping to 10min on SC and arriving in LV with 100 miles range left! that would never happen with my Custom Crappy Range Battery.

I guess the only way to know really is driving until 0%, and call Tesla.. last time I did.. they said oh but you peaked 1 time at 85MPH ... and you peaked acceleration 2 times in red lights... like this would kill me 50MILES OF RANGE? Those I was overtaking other cars/trucks on emergency situations.

I invite other P3+ owners to update their Screen Shots on what they are getting, I think someone leaves nearby me in Diamond Bar... only way I can tell if my car is a lemon.

 

[Dan_LA]

also I will need Apps to help here... i know Tesla stats, haven't gotten yet... any other Apps to track down this bitch and get some data?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Brake Regen on low, not high

This will likely only hurt you. Use standard regen, and then avoid using regen. Not really an issue for all freeway driving though - you should never have to hit the brake there no matter how your regen is set. If you touch the brakes on the freeway at all that is part of your problem. Again: should never have to use the brakes on the freeway. You should also rarely/never be using regen.

I have 283Wh/mi lifetime on my P3D+, and the last 2k+ miles I have been averaging 265Wh/mi. This 265Wh/mi average would give me 269 miles of range, but on the freeway at ~75mph of course it will be lower because I'll be consuming closer to 290-300Wh/mi at that speed - which would be 245 miles of range.

This is all pretty good for the P3D+ - it's fine as long as you make it between Superchargers, and in fact driving faster so your range drops will actually usually make your trip faster overall, not slower (depends a little on your endpoints though - it's not always true, but it is generally true).

It sounds like your battery is basically fine but hard to tell, unless you leave it charging overnight on a Wall Connector or UMC at 30+ amps and it still doesn't get to 100% - it really should. Mine gets to 100% (which is ~305 miles right now, though a couple weeks ago it was ~310 miles - that's likely just a software thing, but it's an inconsequential difference anyway).

 

[Dan_LA]

This will likely only hurt you. Use standard regen, and then avoid using regen. Not really an issue for all freeway driving though - you should never have to hit the brake there no matter how your regen is set. If you touch the brakes on the freeway at all that is part of your problem. Again: should never have to use the brakes on the freeway. You should also rarely/never be using regen.

I have 283Wh/mi lifetime on my P3D+, and the last 2k+ miles I have been averaging 265Wh/mi. This 265Wh/mi average would give me 269 miles of range, but on the freeway at ~75mph of course it will be lower because I'll be consuming closer to 290-300Wh/mi at that speed - which would be 245 miles of range.

This is all pretty good for the P3D+ - it's fine as long as you make it between Superchargers, and in fact driving faster so your range drops will actually usually make your trip faster overall, not slower (depends a little on your endpoints though - it's not always true, but it is generally true).

It sounds like your battery is basically fine but hard to tell, unless you leave it charging overnight on a Wall Connector or UMC at 30+ amps and it still doesn't get to 100% - it really should. Mine gets to 100% (which is ~305 miles right now, though a couple weeks ago it was ~310 miles - that's likely just a software thing, but it's an inconsequential difference anyway).

Yea I meant Brake Regen on Standard... lower so the can "cruise" more on freeways. It's been a while I don't test range since the last episodes, but due to the front motor failure 2 times, I will try again. I got 2 times the turtle icon, saying front motor is temporarily disabled.

I know what you mean about fast vs range, I literally felt that on the trip I did to Monterey,CA from Ontario, CA. Was great to stop so the kids could take a break too, all in all, 10min-30min stopping... Supercharger was the killing decision for P3D+ vs Taycan

I am even thinking to drive all the way to Las Vegas to test the SC 3.0 that just popped... anybody want to join a 1 day back and forth?

 

[ibGeek]

When I say Grandma mode, is driving 75MPH in average, at Non Sport Mode, Brake Regen on low, not high.

Curious where did you get that info about battery, that was a major issue I brought up early this year that I couldn't charge 100%, was always 98-99% and would take forever... when with the LR RWD it was easy, always in the morning 100%. Not with the 3P+. I called Tesla 4 times, they told me to hard reset the car, press both wheel buttons, and wait 5 min until car is back.

I will try the 100% thing again, but pretty sure still same, I can only charge up to 98-99%.. also when on SC same thing... it doesn't go 100%.

The graph always tells me 180 miles range... when fully charge at 90%, although the green bar says 274 miles always...

I agree on the Tesla Range statement as I have driven also model S loaners and is pretty accurate sometimes... many times I feel they eat more like 485 wh/miles... due to being heavier. Also when i had the LW RWD it was very very accurate, I was able to from Ontario to Las Vegas by stopping to 10min on SC and arriving in LV with 100 miles range left! that would never happen with my Custom Crappy Range Battery.

I guess the only way to know really is driving until 0%, and call Tesla.. last time I did.. they said oh but you peaked 1 time at 85MPH ... and you peaked acceleration 2 times in red lights... like this would kill me 50MILES OF RANGE? Those I was overtaking other cars/trucks on emergency situations.

I invite other P3+ owners to update their Screen Shots on what they are getting, I think someone leaves nearby me in Diamond Bar... only way I can tell if my car is a lemon.

I can't speak to my source unfortunately but i would be concerned about anything less than 99% full charge capabilities.

Also there is more than one way to reset, the steering wheel buttons are one way. But for a full reset you should follow that up by going in to settings and choosing power down. just sit in the car, do not touch the brake. Wait about 3 minutes for the car to completely power down, then put your foot on the break and it will power back on.

The green bar is the number to believe, but the fact that they are not in sync points to an issue with calibration. That's the most I've ever heard of them being out of sync. Your weight should not factor in at all. I get full range in my car seating 4 adults.

Please turn Regen up to High, turn off creep mode if it is on. Once you get used to this you'll prefer it and it does gain you extra range.

Also please try the following. Change your display so that it shows battery percent not miles. Drive your car down to say 5 or 10 percent. Then check how far you drove on that charge. With a 310 mile rating, at 5% you should have 16 miles range left. This will make sure you do not run out of battery since your not aiming for miles but rather a percentage of battery charge. Then charge to 100% and do it again. But for normal day to day, only charge to 90%.

If you do this and continue to get that range then you need to start screaming at someone until they hear you. The folks here in Fremont are great but I can't say the same for all locations. Just keep screaming your way up the food chain though and you will find someone to help you. Especially if you have the above data to share with them.

Hope that helps.

 

[RubberToe]

I can't speak to my source unfortunately but i would be concerned about anything less than 99% full charge capabilities.

Also there is more than one way to reset, the steering wheel buttons are one way. But for a full reset you should follow that up by going in to settings and choosing power down. just sit in the car, do not touch the brake. Wait about 3 minutes for the car to completely power down, then put your foot on the break and it will power back on.

The green bar is the number to believe, but the fact that they are not in sync points to an issue with calibration. That's the most I've ever heard of them being out of sync. Your weight should not factor in at all. I get full range in my car seating 4 adults.

Please turn Regen up to High, turn off creep mode if it is on. Once you get used to this you'll prefer it and it does gain you extra range.

Also please try the following. Change your display so that it shows battery percent not miles. Drive your car down to say 5 or 10 percent. Then check how far you drove on that charge. With a 310 mile rating, at 5% you should have 16 miles range left. This will make sure you do not run out of battery since your not aiming for miles but rather a percentage of battery charge. Then charge to 100% and do it again. But for normal day to day, only charge to 90%.

If you do this and continue to get that range then you need to start screaming at someone until they hear you. The folks here in Fremont are great but I can't say the same for all locations. Just keep screaming your way up the food chain though and you will find someone to help you. Especially if you have the above data to share with them.

Hope that helps.

The politicians are doing enough screaming. The rest of us can set a good example for them by trying to keep things civil.

RT

 

[pnlyee]

When I say Grandma mode, is driving 75MPH in average, at Non Sport Mode, Brake Regen on low, not high.

Curious where did you get that info about battery, that was a major issue I brought up early this year that I couldn't charge 100%, was always 98-99% and would take forever... when with the LR RWD it was easy, always in the morning 100%. Not with the 3P+. I called Tesla 4 times, they told me to hard reset the car, press both wheel buttons, and wait 5 min until car is back.

I will try the 100% thing again, but pretty sure still same, I can only charge up to 98-99%.. also when on SC same thing... it doesn't go 100%.

The graph always tells me 180 miles range... when fully charge at 90%, although the green bar says 274 miles always...

I agree on the Tesla Range statement as I have driven also model S loaners and is pretty accurate sometimes... many times I feel they eat more like 485 wh/miles... due to being heavier. Also when i had the LW RWD it was very very accurate, I was able to from Ontario to Las Vegas by stopping to 10min on SC and arriving in LV with 100 miles range left! that would never happen with my Custom Crappy Range Battery.

I guess the only way to know really is driving until 0%, and call Tesla.. last time I did.. they said oh but you peaked 1 time at 85MPH ... and you peaked acceleration 2 times in red lights... like this would kill me 50MILES OF RANGE? Those I was overtaking other cars/trucks on emergency situations.

I invite other P3+ owners to update their Screen Shots on what they are getting, I think someone leaves nearby me in Diamond Bar... only way I can tell if my car is a lemon.

Efficiency has gone up from 246 Wh/mi to 236 Wh/mi on my P3 as miles have accumulated. Driving conditions are identical to post #401 on this thread as the P3 is a commuter car with repeatable conditions for each trip. Will only have about 10K miles by end of year 1 since I rideshare with others ~3 days/week.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Efficiency has gone up from 246 Wh/mi to 236 Wh/mi on my P3 as miles have accumulated. Driving conditions are identical to post #401 on this thread as the P3 is a commuter car with repeatable conditions for each trip. Will only have about 10K miles by end of year 1 since I rideshare with others ~3 days/week.

I have a fresh-ish counter going for my summer wheels and tires, which I put on in mid-June. I'm just under 5,000 miles on them now, but in the last 1,000 miles, my consumption with them on has dropped from 271 wh/mi to 269.

 

[N54TT]

I have a fresh-ish counter going for my summer wheels and tires, which I put on in mid-June. I'm just under 5,000 miles on them now, but in the last 1,000 miles, my consumption with them on has dropped from 271 wh/mi to 269.

Just curious what your summer tires/wheel specs are?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Just curious what your summer tires/wheel specs are?

MIchelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/40/19
TSW Watkins 19x8.5

 

[Dan_LA]

I can't speak to my source unfortunately but i would be concerned about anything less than 99% full charge capabilities.

Also there is more than one way to reset, the steering wheel buttons are one way. But for a full reset you should follow that up by going in to settings and choosing power down. just sit in the car, do not touch the brake. Wait about 3 minutes for the car to completely power down, then put your foot on the break and it will power back on.

The green bar is the number to believe, but the fact that they are not in sync points to an issue with calibration. That's the most I've ever heard of them being out of sync. Your weight should not factor in at all. I get full range in my car seating 4 adults.

Please turn Regen up to High, turn off creep mode if it is on. Once you get used to this you'll prefer it and it does gain you extra range.

Also please try the following. Change your display so that it shows battery percent not miles. Drive your car down to say 5 or 10 percent. Then check how far you drove on that charge. With a 310 mile rating, at 5% you should have 16 miles range left. This will make sure you do not run out of battery since your not aiming for miles but rather a percentage of battery charge. Then charge to 100% and do it again. But for normal day to day, only charge to 90%.

If you do this and continue to get that range then you need to start screaming at someone until they hear you. The folks here in Fremont are great but I can't say the same for all locations. Just keep screaming your way up the food chain though and you will find someone to help you. Especially if you have the above data to share with them.

Hope that helps.

Thanks and I have tried this on Jan/Feb thanks for reminding it and will try again. May I ask which model 3 you have?

I understand that because I had with PUP it came with 20” wheels summer tires I think, bigger brakes... and this the main factor from what I understood, and some excel sheet I saw around says that would drop range from 310 to 265... which I would be happy to have.

But i checked my lifetime wh/mi and it is 321 wh/mi... which is about 233 miles range considering a 75kw battery, but that’s average and it doesn’t tell much.

I will have to start tracking it maybe using apps to help. Just really dont like idea of 3rd apps accessing it. And not even sure if Tesla would accept arguments based on 3rd party apps... anyone been through that in the past with model s or x?