Performance Upgrade Price Change!

[electrictorque]

My take on this:

The reason I hate conventional Auto dealers is because some one with good negotiating skills is able to get the same exact car than some who doesn't.

That is exactly why I thought Tesla was different, well looks like I was wrong, if Tesla doesn't do what's right for us customers, then in my opinion it is worse than Auto dealers.

 

[MXWing]

My take on this:

The reason I hate conventional Auto dealers is because some one with good negotiating skills is able to get the same exact car than some who doesn't.

That is exactly why I thought Tesla was different, well looks like I was wrong, if Tesla doesn't do what's right for us customers, then in my opinion it is worse than Auto dealers.

Tesla is not the same as a traditional auto as the price was the same for anyone buying Thursday. The price is the same for anyone buying today.

I benefit more from a every man for himself negotiating model but it’s better goodwill overall for everyone to get the same treatment.

Tesla is in a difficult situation and dug their own hole.

When taking care of the customers, how much is to be done, done for whom and done for how long?

 

[juanmedina]

Selling a Performance edition without any actual performance parts is like breeding three legged Huskies and putting them to work on a dog sled... They may get the job done but they will forever be handicapped.

235 wide tires on 20" anchor wheels is not performance. I give you the brakes but even those can be upgraded easily for better ones. Look at MPP with their front rotors, brake pads and brake fluid you get car that has better brake feel, less fade than the PUP cars.

You are also forgeting the P3D- is also getting track mode.

 

[Vines]

235 wide tires on 20" anchor wheels is not performance. I give you the brakes but even those can be upgraded easily for better ones. Look at MPP with their front rotors, brake pads and brake fluid you get car that has better brake feel, less fade than the PUP cars.

You are also forgeting the P3D- is also getting track mode.

As someone who drove both the 18" and 20" version of the P3D I can DEFINETELY SAY that the 20" give better performance feel and better performance to just about every one who would drive it. Everything the aftermarket delivers will be "better" to some folks, but that doesn't mean a factory approved lower, stiffer, sticker car that stops a lot better isn't performance. It even keeps the warranty.

It may not be as extreme as some want but its very very very good for the street. This is not a "Competition Package." Imagine you go to get a brake job with your MPP BBK. The average brake shop wont know how to serve you unless you have all the info and parts to give them. What happens in 5 years if MPP decides to move on to other cars? Where will you get your brake rotors and pads?

Some customers would be happy to order the brake pads, rotors themselves, maybe even buy an extra set, but your average user is looking for a car to be driven on the street, and repaired by normal mechanics.

 

[hashraf]

Selling a Performance edition without any actual performance parts is like breeding three legged Huskies and putting them to work on a dog sled... They may get the job done but they will forever be handicapped.

Forever be handicapped? Can you tell me what is about P3D+ that makes it better for street driving other than summer tires? Bigger brakes seem to only help on track with intense braking volume, the suspension height difference seems is so minuscule that it probably makes almost no difference. What else? If a P3D- buyer simply spends $1K to replace the all season tires with PS4 then that should equal the handling. Acceleration is the same (nobody expects to drive 145+ on street). Both get track mode. Maybe I am missing something but in terms of spirited street driving, simply putting in $1K for summer tires makes both cars equivalent (for the $1K, P3D- guy can actually get wider tires (255) than stock 20" PS4s which may make handling even better than P3D+ with stock tires). Is there anything else that is different? Dont tell me pedals and spoiler make the car perform better. Is the suspension on P3D+ stiffer/sportier? Haven't heard anything so far...

 

[Vines]

Forever be handicapped? Can you tell me what is about P3D+ that makes it better for street driving other than summer tires? Bigger brakes seem to only help on track with intense braking volume, the suspension height difference seems is so minuscule that it probably makes almost no difference. What else? If a P3D- buyer simply spends $1K to replace the all season tires with PS4 then that should equal the handling. Acceleration is the same (nobody expects to drive 145+ on street). Both get track mode. Maybe I am missing something but in terms of spirited street driving, simply putting in $1K for summer tires makes both cars equivalent (for the $1K, P3D- guy can actually get wider tires (255) than stock 20" PS4s which may make handling even better than P3D+ with stock tires). Is there anything else that is different? Dont tell me pedals and spoiler make the car perform better. Is the suspension on P3D+ stiffer/sportier? Haven't heard anything so far...

You are very close, there isn't much difference unless you really like to drive fast. You will notice brake fade with the AWD brakes if you start really driving hard beyond the limits of regen. The performance model suspension is slightly stiffer, not sure if its just springs and struts or just springs. I suspect both.
The 18" will handle well enough but wont have the razor sharp turn in that a 20" will have but ultimate grip beyond the transition phase will be very similar.

 

[Jason_G]

Forever be handicapped? Can you tell me what is about P3D+ that makes it better for street driving other than summer tires? Bigger brakes seem to only help on track with intense braking volume, the suspension height difference seems is so minuscule that it probably makes almost no difference. What else? If a P3D- buyer simply spends $1K to replace the all season tires with PS4 then that should equal the handling. Acceleration is the same (nobody expects to drive 145+ on street). Both get track mode. Maybe I am missing something but in terms of spirited street driving, simply putting in $1K for summer tires makes both cars equivalent (for the $1K, P3D- guy can actually get wider tires (255) than stock 20" PS4s which may make handling even better than P3D+ with stock tires). Is there anything else that is different? Dont tell me pedals and spoiler make the car perform better. Is the suspension on P3D+ stiffer/sportier? Haven't heard anything so far...

I have a P3D (I’m now accepting the terminology that there is nothing “-“ about it). In my opinion the single biggest limitation to the vehicle from a handling characteristic are the Primacy all season tires. It’s a heavy car, and there are not enough plys on the sidewall lol. This car still feels like a heat seeking missile on the street though. Love it so much.

 

[juanmedina]

As someone who drove both the 18" and 20" version of the P3D I can DEFINETELY SAY that the 20" give better performance feel and better performance to just about every one who would drive it. Everything the aftermarket delivers will be "better" to some folks, but that doesn't mean a factory approved lower, stiffer, sticker car that stops a lot better isn't performance. It even keeps the warranty.

It may not be as extreme as some want but its very very very good for the street. This is not a "Competition Package." Imagine you go to get a brake job with your MPP BBK. The average brake shop wont know how to serve you unless you have all the info and parts to give them. What happens in 5 years if MPP decides to move on to other cars? Where will you get your brake rotors and pads?

Some customers would be happy to order the brake pads, rotors themselves, maybe even buy an extra set, but your average user is looking for a car to be driven on the street, and repaired by normal mechanics.

The last part of your post makes no sense. MPP also makes a standard size rotors that you can use standard size brake pads. MPP is the only company that is doing that right now but there will be ton of aftermarket options available. When I had my IS-F which is a very limited production car I believe thr only sold 14,000 cars in the USA during 5 years there were tons of brake pad option. There is going to be around 170,000 models 3s on the streets by the end of the year.

There is also going to be tons wrecked PUP cars that we can buy parts from for cheap.

 

[hashraf]

You are very close, there isn't much difference unless you really like to drive fast. You will notice brake fade with the AWD brakes if you start really driving hard beyond the limits of regen. The performance model suspension is slightly stiffer, not sure if its just springs and struts or just springs. I suspect both.
The 18" will handle well enough but wont have the razor sharp turn in that a 20" will have but ultimate grip beyond the transition phase will be very similar.

From what I understand 18 vs 20 shouldnt make a difference in handling. its the stickier tires and the width of the tires. If a 18" gets 255 width PS4, it should do better than stock 20s and 18s are lighter so it may actually be faster with 255/18. Stiffer suspension - maybe you are correct if they truly have different suspension on P3D+ but not sure if that is actually the case. Its the narrow sidewall 20" tires that probably make it feel stiffer vs stock 18" but I dont know......

 

[Nine2Five]

Suppose to pick up my P3D+ on Thursday 11/1 just checked my account and they have -$5000 that i owe, i guess i didn't get an option to choose
'

 

[kbecks13]

The performance model suspension is slightly stiffer, not sure if its just springs and struts or just springs. I suspect both.

Who says it's stiffer? I really don't think it is.

 

[fbitz777]

Suppose to pick up my P3D+ on Thursday 11/1 just checked my account and they have -$5000 that i owe, i guess i didn't get an option to choose
'

Makes sense to me. I don't see that free Supercharging is an ongoing option on the design studio.

 

[caskater47]

235 wide tires on 20" anchor wheels is not performance. I give you the brakes but even those can be upgraded easily for better ones. Look at MPP with their front rotors, brake pads and brake fluid you get car that has better brake feel, less fade than the PUP cars.

You are also forgeting the P3D- is also getting track mode.

But will P3D- also get the top speed bump to 155 now? Remember that is limited to 145, only PUP has 155. If Tesla gives us track mode and the 155 top speed without having to give anything up then yes maybe it's not so bad since as you said you can get better parts out there. But otherwise then there's still stuff missing that we may never be able to replace and that sucks.

 

[Vines]

Who says it's stiffer? I really don't think it is.

I am not sure if I can find a source except for the feel to my butt. I know I read that the Road and Track review that "Both are nearly identical" That means to me that the P3D is slightly stiffer, as it is lower and so has to have different springs at least. Its possible the change could be softer, I don't have that data.

Transitional behavior of the 20 vs 18 will be pretty obvious. Not that this translates to ultimate performance, but the 20" will feel like performance to most people.

As to the point of brake pads, you are correct, the pads are the same, as the calipers are the same, but that doesn't mean your average brake shop wont have questions. My point there is that some people like the "Factory performance" as its straight forward, right out of the catalog, even if its more expensive, or less extreme.

If you bring your MPP BBK to an average shop for instance, what spec will they use to determine if the rotors need replacement? Same with Wheel fitment, if you have the BBK you cant easily call around to see if your wheels will fit, only MPP knows. Factory parts have benefits to the average customer and that is naturally where Tesla needs to focus.

 

[Shizzrock]

From what I understand 18 vs 20 shouldnt make a difference in handling. its the stickier tires and the width of the tires. If a 18" gets 255 width PS4, it should do better than stock 20s and 18s are lighter so it may actually be faster with 255/18. Stiffer suspension - maybe you are correct if they truly have different suspension on P3D+ but not sure if that is actually the case. Its the narrow sidewall 20" tires that probably make it feel stiffer vs stock 18" but I dont know......

there's definitely different front and rear sway bars, springs and dampers on the P according to the catalog,however I think it's also inaccurate or incomplete. My rear springs aren't even listed and they make my P+ sit 1/2" higher. Also, it's not just section width, but the aspect that can improve cornering performance. If you have too much tread height, the tires will deflect on cornering.

Who says it's stiffer? I really don't think it is.

You may not have the right springs lol. When I get my car back I'm gonna check all the part numbers because what i also suspect is the reason for this sudden move is the assemblers were mismatching parts between the P- and P+.

If you think about it, this all started because everyone started whining about not wanting 20" wheels and forced Elon to make a fake performance model. Four months later, here we are.

 

[wbhokie]

But will P3D- also get the top speed bump to 155 now? Remember that is limited to 145, only PUP has 155. If Tesla gives us track mode and the 155 top speed without having to give anything up then yes maybe it's not so bad since as you said you can get better parts out there. But otherwise then there's still stuff missing that we may never be able to replace and that sucks.

The top speed thing is mostly just a bragging right. Just like the brakes are mostly just a track thing. People talk about it a lot, and on the forums, some people do it, but the vast majority will never come close to that top speed, nor never track it, so neither of those things really matter. Just get some good tires and replace as needed. Even with "track mode", most people will talk about it more here than actually use it. The latest update is even going to let us increase our regen braking without it... What we all have in common here is that we all love our Telas. It's a great car! Have fun!

 

[Shizzrock]

I've never seen so much hate for 20 inch wheels in all my car life. Every other car forum dudes are trying to slam 20 inch wheels into their car and they don't care about rubbing.

 

[Shizzrock]

The top speed thing is mostly just a bragging right. Just like the brakes are mostly just a track thing. People talk about it a lot, and on the forums, some people do it, but the vast majority will never come close to that top speed, nor never track it, so neither of those things really matter. Just get some good tires and replace as needed.

I'd agree with you except the stock front rotors are undersized. Yes, yes yes yes I know the tires stop the car, but the rotors create braking modulation and dissipate heat. If the rotor is undersized, it gives you that feeling where you slam on the pedal and it just doesn't bite. Like other people have said previously, it's because they were counting on using regen most of the time, and even with the P brakes that's what I try to do. But the car is a rocket ship, sometimes you want to let loose and you may find yourself not coming up short when it matters.

 

[Msjulie]

f you think about it, this all started because everyone started whining about not wanting 20" wheels and forced Elon to make a fake performance model. Four months later, here we are.

Ouch. My car is not fake... it's stealth!

 

[Shizzrock]

Ouch. My car is not fake... it's stealth!

Sorry, I was emulating the trolling of some people on this thread, no hate. But if I had a nickel every time I read the 20 inch wheels are boat anchors, even though there's a four pound difference between the two wheel and tire sets, I'd be able to not worry about that five grand.