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Performance Upgrade Price Change!
- Thread starter spesler
- Start date
It's an economic fact that subsidies artificially manipulate market prices.
Used cars will hold their value better when a new car is more expensive relative to a used car due to reduced or loss of subsidies.
caskater47
Member
Not really no. The value of the car doesn't include the tax incentives since it is only a deduction and has no actual cash value. For CA folks, the rebate does have cash value but only for certain people that actually qualify. Further you can't pass that on to another buyer. The price you paid for the car at delivery is the value. If that price drops you lost that much value. I don't consider my $65k P3D to be a $55K car after tax. That's compete bull and a marketing lie.
Now if some buyer thinks they should be paying only $50-55K for a used P3D because you know, we all got those tax incentives, then I'd be laughing my head off at them.
Msjulie
Active Member
Perhaps that can happen but I would not say that it alone is a certainty.
When I sold my RWD M3 to get my <tongue-in-cheek>now worth less</tongue-in-cheek> Performance 3 I did not see my car devalued as others would have expected due to that rebate..
This can happen for a multitude of reasons, not just subsidies so...
edit for my own clarity
A penny saved is a penny earned. Whether you get paid or owe less - the effect is the same because the unit (dollars) is fungible.
I made a post above explaining the effect of subsidies. Not sure why you don't think the tax credit doesnt have value? Unless you can't claim it but that is a different scenario.
With all economic impact analysis, ceteris paribus (all other things being equal). Low supply, high demand suppressed any outsized impact of the tax credit. You got at at the best possible time and your buyer overpaid to your benefit.
I wonder if the depreciation curve for your vehicle is linear since you sold it or has accelerated in conjunction with the Model 3 production ramp. I suspect pricing feel faster in recent months than previous months.
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Msjulie
Active Member
Not everyone can claim the same amount of tax credits so claiming there is fixed and finite value in the credit is where my disagreement comes in..
The CA rebate is a perfect example, I can never claim it so it means zero to me - someone else might so the car becomes 2400 less for them with nothing different on my side.
The tax incentive is a credit and not a deduction. I don't think there are many P3D buyers out there that don't pay that much in federal tax right now. Let's take a look at the base vehicle of $64K. If you buy it right now, you get $64K and $7500 in cash early next year. The current used market is driven by used buyers and sellers. I don't see why a used buyer would consider paying much more than $56500 for a used P3D when they can get a brand new vehicle for effectively the same price.
Now of course this is largely a theoretical discussion. I don't think many have taken delivery and began selling or trading in immediately.
You can't take your household example and extrapolate it to the entire macro economy.
Because MOST people can claim the credits - it affects the macro used car market.
A used Tesla 100% is worth more 1 day later than Dec 31st, 2018. Not 3750 more but will be more.
Imagine this scenario.
You take delivery of a 3MR. You find out it it doesn't meet your needs. You sell it Jan 1st, 2019. You are out only $1000 net net after purchasing it and owning it for a month.
Exact numbers will vary but without the subsidies, you would be out multiple thousands for that kind of flip.
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Msjulie
Active Member
You are trying to presume that a rebate is valid in the entire macro economy... same diff
And I am not trying to extrapolate anything, I am merely saying that your claim of 100% applicability is not true..
Agree to disagree and be done with this now I shall...
caskater47
Member
My mistake I understood it as a tax deduction in which you can only reduce the gross income which doesn't translate to a dollar for dollar exchange. I didnt understand it as a straight credit of what is owed. So yea that does have more direct value.
I think both of us are saying MOST can claim the credit. I would go further and say that the overwhelming majority of P3D buyers can claim the federal tax credit.
It's not worth fighting over for sure. <3 Just... I am particular about this subject because I spend so much time on it every day. Helping companies navigate tariffs is like working with negative tax credits and negative subsidies.
Let's focus on the real issue and topic of the thread. ELON BEING A DICK to his faithful early adopters for no good reason.
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Msjulie
Active Member
Fair enough
I might have rephrased that some but I have to say All the price bouncing (paint, awd, now performance) does cause me some unease even though I was one that had my deposit in early and own stock and volunteered to help deliver cars etc cause I would rather them just keep the d*mn 5k and crush the whole EV thing... clearly we will pay for these cars!
Let's focus on the real issue and topic of the thread. ELON BEING A DICK to his faithful early adopters for no good reason.
I might have rephrased that some
but I have to say All the price bouncing (paint, awd, now performance) does cause me some unease even though I was one that had my deposit in early and own stock and volunteered to help deliver cars etc cause I would rather them just keep the d*mn 5k and crush the whole EV thing... clearly we will pay for these cars!
Glamisduner
Active Member
No because tesla will decrease the price again next year.
Jagwease
Member
or for those of us that have ordered but not received the P3D- , I suggest P3D¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On this issue of the 7500 tax credit an how it relates to value of resale:
If you lease the car someone (leasing co) takes the 7500 credit and I am certain that the financed value is MSRP-7500...
so it is reasonable to expect a one day old car to resell or trade for that amount.
If you lease the car someone (leasing co) takes the 7500 credit and I am certain that the financed value is MSRP-7500...
so it is reasonable to expect a one day old car to resell or trade for that amount.
caskater47
Member
I'm fairly certain that in the case of a lease it is not the leasing co that gets the tax credit, it would be the leasee.
