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Petition for Tesla to replace CCS as standard in US
- Thread starter Olle
- Start date
Apologies, I was generalizing. Yes, I realize that the super chargers have a switchboard and a separate cabinet for managing multiple charging stations. It’s a better system than what EA have been using and other systems which have built in screens as well as no centralized load balancing. The lighter weight plug is proprietary and is a better/mechanically sound design than CCS1 and CCS2 in my opinion. The reason why I say the Supercharger designs are cheaper is because each station is just a cable with only 1 button. The rest of the functionality is through the charging cabinet and the app. There are fewer parts and the charging load can be balanced across multiple charge stations. The supercharger cabinet is also more easily serviceable and redundancy can be set up. A lot of CCS chargers require a separate computing unit, screens/buttons, and also integrated payment systems. I also think that the reason why you can’t get higher kW charging is due to load balancing and peak energy ability from the transformer.
One of the things I don’t understand in terms of J1772, Chademo, CCS1, and CCS2 was why they adopted a separate 2 DC terminals instead of using the existing locations of their Line 1 and Neutral in the J1772 design. Was it due to insufficient wiring for J1772 or did they want to phase out single phase charging over time? They have changed these charging standards like 3 times since 2009 and it’s starting to look like the intention is to add ports while still supporting the old ones. Even worse is that the EU is using CCS2 for standardization. It just seems like the intention is to complicate the adoption of EVs and make the ports worse for charging in order to force planned obsolescence. Does anyone have a good explanation for the EV charging standards?
RTPEV
Active Member
Keep in mind it's not a trivial matter to dynamically bypass the AC/DC converter in order to share the pins for both AC and DC charging. Sure, it's possible, but there is an extra expense of electronics in the vehicle to handle that.
Additionally I strongly suspect (can't say for certain) that there are electrical reasons (both in terms of pin size and separation) why the J1772 pins would not be sufficient to carry high power DC charging. Maybe it would be fine at 25 or 50kW, but I suspect 350kW or more would be way too much.
Additionally I strongly suspect (can't say for certain) that there are electrical reasons (both in terms of pin size and separation) why the J1772 pins would not be sufficient to carry high power DC charging. Maybe it would be fine at 25 or 50kW, but I suspect 350kW or more would be way too much.
The real reason for separating out the DC pins on CCS is to make it so clunky that it stops EV adoption. The committee on this consisted mostly of car makers. They make money on ICE cars and lose money on EVs. ICE executives are not paid to shoot themselves in the foot by paving the way for EVsEver wondered why ICE-maker EVs have two to three manual charge covers per port while Tesla has one automatic? It ain’t to make charging easier…
edit: the clearest example is Europe where Tesla had already combined integrated the DC pins into the already standardized type 2, 1 to 3 phase connector which then doubled as Tesla supercharger connector. Type became the CCS2 top half with the DC pins moved out. it’s clear as night and day how a beautiful plug that worked was deliberate turned into something ugly that barely works.
The advantage is that they retained existing AC compatibility and separated power. But really it needed a fresh design. See the megacharger plug for a better design that puts the DC up top.
J1772 and CCS1 is the most sucky "standard" and both need to die. That 5" long latch on the connector is a weak spot, and breaks frequently, and it doesn't support 3 phase. We need a new standard that supports 3 phase AC and DC charging with 2 of the AC pins in a larger form factor and shared with DC, kind of like the TPC has. Basically, a TPC with 2 additional AC pins for 3 phase support. It would be worth dumping the TPC in exchange for that, but it's definitely not worth dumping it in exchange for J1772/CCS1.
What did you just write? You need a padlock? So it is usually true what I wrote. You do need a 3rd party part and then you write its not usually true. Huh?
1+. What you describe is almost what Tesla used as supercharger connector in Europe until CCS combo 2 was mandated. With the difference that up to four AC pins where utilized in DC mode.
It is called Mennekes Type 2, see picture below. (There is also an American version SAE J3068).
Mennekes Type 2 AC mode is the public charger standard in the EU. The beauty of this was that the Tesla charge receptacle accepted both Superchargers and public AC chargers.
Tesla has a proprietary DC mode at 150 kW, which was max power of V2 supercharging at the time. Would be interesting to know from someone with more insight how much power Tesla was planning for future supercharging through this plug before the switch to CCS2. Speculating a bit it seems like they were planning more power because the addition of CCS connectors to the superchargers seemed like an afterthought, forced by the mandate. Especially considering that many of them now have double cables and connectors.
RTPEV
Active Member
Okay, sure, you are correct: you need a "3rd party part" that costs less than $5 at a drug store. Apologies for thinking that your statement implied that this was not possible without some fancy equipment that you needed to order from a specialty shop.
The problem with the CCS1 and CCS2 plugs is that they are too big and heavy. What ends up happening with the plug is that the top latch gets loose over time and puts extra stress on the DC charge ports which can eventually cause damage on the vehicle. Add this to potentially loose connectors and you have potential for an electrical arc. This can result in injury and death. The other issue is that once the latch gets loose, the communication ports on the plug get loose and sometimes can’t communicate with the charge station. You need to push the top of the CCS connector in and keep constant pressure in order to charge the vehicle. It’s just not mechanically sound design which is why standardizing to CCS will cause more issues in the future. It’s like the Bluetooth consortium back in the day that screwed up the standard for nearly a decade until they finally fixed the audio standards.
I have seen Tesla plugs with broken pins and some laying on the ground, supposedly a signal they are broken. I don't promote that as a generalization that many Tesla plugs are prone to breakage. I have seen flat tires too on Bridgestone but don't generalize Bridgestone tires get more flats than Michelin.
You can be snarky all you want but my point still stands. With CCS due to commonality with J1772, absolutely no adapters needed. With Tesla, I need a) J1772 adapter and b) an additional lock to secure things. What fun in the rain and if you snow and ice.
Which path is more consumer friendly? The CCS path!
(For the record, my J1772 adapter from Tesla failed after 4 years and Tesla had me buy a new one for $50. Another J1772 adapter detractor)
This is dumb. Why have Tesla nozzle as the standard when CCS is already the standard for every other OEM? This petition make no sense to meThis would be awesome!
Sign the Petition
Congress: Tesla Superchargers and Plugs should be the Uâ.âS. standard for EVswww.change.org
Aptera asks Congress to make Tesla's plug and Superchargers the standard for EVs in the US
Aptera has launched a petition to ask Congress to make Tesla Superchargers and its plug the standard for electric vehicles...electrek.co
I signed the petition. While I realize it's somewhat unlikely to pass I just want to stand up for what's right.
Mockingbird
Member
Why would you lobby for the most expensive option? It would cost a lot more to change all the Tesla connectors to CCS than change the CC to Tesla.
Charge port damage: How serious?
Today I noticed what looks like damage to my Tesla's charge port: The top-right pin (more of a socket, really) in the photo is shorter than its left-side counterpart, and has exposed metal at its tip. I guess a plastic bit at the end of the piece broke off. I don't see any hint of it in any of...
teslamotorsclub.com
Just cause some of us don't know something, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Mockingbird
Member
...because Tesla's terms of use for the Tesla Proprietary Connector (TPC) are unacceptable to most automakers
Also, I doubt that CCS is much more expensive than TPC.
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