Physical buttons in Model S

[smoothoperator]

It would be unreal if Tesla created a console that had switch cutouts and an adapter that allowed for honest to goodness switches for the pano roof etc. I do not think it would be that difficult to create a console that had switch cut outs.

Mod Note: this discussion was broken out from the Opportunity Console - New Photos, Poll thread

 

[AnOutsider]

It would be unreal if Tesla created a console that had switch cutouts and an adapter that allowed for honest to goodness switches for the pano roof etc. I do not think it would be that difficult to create a console that had switch cut outs.

It would be a waste of time and a premature admission of defeat IMO. Let's use the screen for a bit and see how practical it is before saying what does and doesn't need a physical counterpart. I suspect as we drive in the thousands and send feedback to the homebase, Model S 1.5 or 2.0 may make some concessions to things Tesla originally thought clever or fine, and others the skeptics will realize are perfect as-is.

 

[youlikeadajuice]

I agree that we should wait and see how the touchscreen works in real world conditions before we start griping about it! It has the huge advantage of being easily updatable! Aircraft have been using "glass screens" for years with no ill effects, why not try it out in cars! Plus there is no way to pack in all the capabilities of the touchscreen into a conventional style dashboard, there just wouldn't be enough room! We demand more and more features but end up cluttering the car with knobs and switches, this is an elegant solution that deserves a chance!

 

[smoothoperator]

I agree that we should wait and see how the touchscreen works in real world conditions before we start griping about it! It has the huge advantage of being easily updatable! Aircraft have been using "glass screens" for years with no ill effects, why not try it out in cars! Plus there is no way to pack in all the capabilities of the touchscreen into a conventional style dashboard, there just wouldn't be enough room! We demand more and more features but end up cluttering the car with knobs and switches, this is an elegant solution that deserves a chance!

It is silly to compare an aircraft control panel to the dashboard of a vehicle (this type of display is much more dangerous in a vehicle and does not serve the same purpose as it would have in an airplane). I prefer to have switches as a fail-safe for certain items in my vehicle. I do not see how redundant buttons would be admitting defeat, if anything it would broaden the customer base. Redundant console controls is something I would definitely pay extra for.

 

[youlikeadajuice]

It is silly to compare an aircraft control panel to the dashboard of a vehicle (this type of display is much more dangerous in a vehicle and does not serve the same purpose as it would have in an airplane). I prefer to have switches as a fail-safe for certain items in my vehicle. I do not see how redundant buttons would be admitting defeat, if anything it would broaden the customer base. Redundant console controls is something I would definitely pay extra for.

How is it silly? Do you have facts to back that up? No. It's never been done so we won't know until it's tried. They serve a lot of the same purposes (control of systems, navigation, comfort controls, communications...) And to assume that physical buttons would broaden the customer base is pure opinion...my opinion is that the lack of clutter and the expanded use of the touchscreen is broadening the customer base. To offer both would broaden the customer base, but with the company still in it's infancy they can't afford offer both, so they've decided to stick with the company's mantra of heading towards new things instead of settling for the old.

 

[jerry33]

It is silly to compare an aircraft control panel to the dashboard of a vehicle (this type of display is much more dangerous in a vehicle and does not serve the same purpose as it would have in an airplane). I prefer to have switches as a fail-safe for certain items in my vehicle. I do not see how redundant buttons would be admitting defeat, if anything it would broaden the customer base. Redundant console controls is something I would definitely pay extra for.

But aren't the common functions accessible from the steering wheel? I don't touch the Prius' screen even once a month because all the things I normally do are on the steering wheel buttons. In fact, I don't think I've touched the display in years other than to set navigation.

 

[smoothoperator]

How is it silly? Do you have facts to back that up? No. It's never been done so we won't know until it's tried. They serve a lot of the same purposes (control of systems, navigation, comfort controls, communications...)

You can fly a plane without any visibility using just instrumentation this is impossible in a Model S using just the display. Is this a fact or opinion? It is silly to compare the two. Feel free to prove me wrong by completely covering your windshield and driving your Model S with just the 17 inch display.

But aren't the common functions accessible from the steering wheel? I don't touch the Prius' screen even once a month because all the things I normally do are on the steering wheel buttons. In fact, I don't think I've touched the display in years other than to set navigation.

We do not know exactly what the final Model S will allow you to control, via the cluster. In my Mercedes there are so many nested menus that it sometimes is annoying to have to go through all of them to change a simple setting. Furthermore, we also do not know exactly where Tesla is with regards to Voice Command. The steering wheel controls are nice. but for frequent use items it is always nice having a dedicated button (i.e. pano roof, folding mirrors, trunk open/close etc)

 

[jerry33]

Feel free to prove me wrong by completely covering your windshield and driving your Model S with just the 17 inch display.

Aren't you supposed to turn off the display too, so that you can practice your Zen driving?

 

[youlikeadajuice]

You can fly a plane without any visibility using just instrumentation this is impossible in a Model S using just the display. Is this a fact or opinion? It is silly to compare the two. Feel free to prove me wrong by completely covering your windshield and driving your Model S with just the 17 inch display.

The ability to fly a plane in zero visibility is based heavily on the pilot...the pilot can do this with or without glass touchscreen controls. They did it with older avionics with physical knobs and switches as well. There are plenty of pilots without an instrument rating (meaning rated to fly with little/no visibility) who fly airplanes according to visual flight rules that take full advantage of glass cockpits. It would be ludicrous for a pilot who is only rated to fly visually to fly with the windshield covered, and yet, they still use the touch screens without problems. In the automotive world it would be equally foolish to drive without being able to see out the windshield, but that doesn't mean that a touchscreen won't be useful for everyday driving controls.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just reading posts and seeing a lot of gripes about things that people really haven't had a chance to test out at all. There were so many gripes about the lack of a sunshade for the pano roof that by the time test drives came around, Tesla had already come up with an ugly, half-baked sunshade that we all now have to deal with if we want the pano roof. I just would hate to have a similar things happen to the dash with the addition of ugly, afterthought buttons when we don't even know if they'll be needed yet. The touchscreen may do a beautiful job of being functional, we should give it a try!

 

[smoothoperator]

The ability to fly a plane in zero visibility is based heavily on the pilot...the pilot can do this with or without glass touchscreen controls. They did it with older avionics with physical knobs and switches as well. There are plenty of pilots without an instrument rating (meaning rated to fly with little/no visibility) who fly airplanes according to visual flight rules that take full advantage of glass cockpits. It would be ludicrous for a pilot who is only rated to fly visually to fly with the windshield covered, and yet, they still use the touch screens without problems. In the automotive world it would be equally foolish to drive without being able to see out the windshield, but that doesn't mean that a touchscreen won't be useful for everyday driving controls.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just reading posts and seeing a lot of gripes about things that people really haven't had a chance to test out at all. There were so many gripes about the lack of a sunshade for the pano roof that by the time test drives came around, Tesla had already come up with an ugly, half-baked sunshade that we all now have to deal with if we want the pano roof. I just would hate to have a similar things happen to the dash with the addition of ugly, afterthought buttons when we don't even know if they'll be needed yet. The touchscreen may do a beautiful job of being functional, we should give it a try!

The fact of the matter is, airplane instrumentation (be it knobs or touchscreen controls) are far more important and serve a lot more functions in an airplane than the 17 inch display in the Model S (hence silly comparison). The opportunity console will be an optional item that some people may opt for. I stare at a computer screen all day last thing I want to do is stare at another 17 inch screen on my way home from work. Would rather turn the thing off (sometimes) and use buttons to do normal operations. Speak for yourself, I would :love: redundant buttons as a part of the console :smile:

 

[Beavis]

Tesla isn't putting buttons in the car. Time to move on.

 

[ddruz]

George B. said Tesla was going to use this thread for feedback about the critical console/storage/cup holder issue. Would it be possible for the buttons and knobs vs. touchscreen discussion to continue elsewhere so as not to divert attention from the pivotal issue for which this thread was established?

 

[Robert.Boston]

George B. said Tesla was going to use this thread for feedback about the critical console/storage/cup holder issue. Would it be possible for the buttons and knobs vs. touchscreen discussion to continue elsewhere so as not to divert attention from the pivotal issue for which this thread was established?

In defense of the pro-button people, suppose that one version of the center console contained two rocker switches, whose function could be programmed from the console. I, for one, might program A to handle the pano roof and B to handle the trunk door. Someone else might want A-forward to open the frunk, A-rear to open the trunk, B-forward to mute/unmute the sound system, and B-backward to call her husband.

Options are good.

 

[jomo25]

Aren't you supposed to turn off the display too, so that you can practice your Zen driving?

Use the force.

 

[brianman]

I do not see how redundant buttons would be admitting defeat, if anything it would broaden the customer base. Redundant console controls is something I would definitely pay extra for.

Or it might turn off the customer base that buys into avoiding the cluttered look of buttons. Also, whichever style you like (screen or buttons) some prospective buyers are turned off by redundancy alone.

In the same breath as "what you're saying is silly", you're making assertions that aren't fact.

Recommendation: Pull it back a little. Your opinion is your opinion, but there is room for other opinions. Trivializing the input of others with words like "silly" is counterproductive to all parties.

In defense of the pro-button people, suppose that one version of the center console contained two rocker switches, whose function could be programmed from the console.

I like this concept.

 

[dsm363]

I wouldn't mind Robert's idea and I think they've already thought of some of this (steering wheel controls) but I agree with waiting and driving the car long term first before we pan the touchscreen idea.

 

[smoothoperator]

Or it might turn off the customer base that buys into avoiding the cluttered look of buttons. Also, whichever style you like (screen or buttons) some prospective buyers are turned off by redundancy alone.

In the same breath as "what you're saying is silly", you're making assertions that aren't fact.

Recommendation: Pull it back a little. Your opinion is your opinion, but there are room for other opinions. Trivializing the input of others with words like "silly" is counterproductive to all parties.

What I was calling silly was the notion that the 17 inch touchscreen in the Model S being used similar to that of an avionics system. Avionics can actually be used to solely fly an airplane...It is impossible to drive the Model S via the 17 inch touchscreen. I think you misunderstood my point. This comparison is what I was calling silly. The functionality of the 17 inch touchscreen is not comparable to that of an avionics system. Is it fact that you can drive the Model S utilizing the 17 inch touchscreen? Or is that an opinion?

An option that includes buttons would turn off people who do not want that option from purchasing the car?

 

[brianman]

The functionality of the 17 inch touchscreen is not comparable to that of an avionics system.

Sure it is. What's not comparable is "yellow" to "salty".

Evaluating the similarities and differences between things -- comparing and contrasting them -- in an objective way is a better starting point. From there you can build arguments and conclusions about why the evaluation is interesting or not.

Is it fact that you can drive the Model S utilizing the 17 inch touchscreen?

It's an unknown and an unlikely from-the-factory option. That doesn't mean it's impossible or silly.

 

[smoothoperator]

Sure it is. What's not comparable is "yellow" to "salty".

Evaluating the similarities and differences between things -- comparing and contrasting them -- in an objective way is a better starting point. From there you can build arguments and conclusions about why the evaluation is interesting or not.


It's an unknown and an unlikely from-the-factory option. That doesn't mean it's impossible or silly.

lol ok bro.....

To get back on topic...I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a system like this (either third party or Tesla). It seems like it would be pretty straightforward, I for one am pretty excited about some of the future consoles that may come out for the Model S. Robert had a great idea with regards to having the ability to program these potential hardware switches.

 

[spatterso911]

Would an app displaying a screen of presets solve this problem??