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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
n2mb_racing
Active Member
I checked recently. They are wearing pretty evenly at 9k miles so far.
That IS the issue and you can see on the sidewall where the tread has been worn down so far it ate into the belts.
This is kind of silly, but compare that to dragging your foot on the road while you ride a motorcycle, then getting upset when it wears through the boot and hits your foot. then blame the boot company for a material failure.
I called Michellin today and they gave me a brief run around saying I needed to take the tires to an inspection (Tesla service kept my tires when they were replaced last month at 11k miles from new) and then they wanted Tesla to call I and verbally verify an inspection of the tires - to which I told them wouldn’t happen because Tesla doesn’t have any number to contact them. I then emailed the customer service agent my invoice for 2 new tires and she offered me 50% refund. That was something so I took it.
As a reminder to all: when you have to have your 21" Michelin OEM tires replaced early, KEEP THE TIRES.
Unexplained pressure loss is likely the result of an internal failure within the tire and Michelin is, finally, making amends for some owners with either full or partial reimbursement.
Lastly, please take pictures of the inside edge/sidewall, if possible, for sharing here.
More pictures of FAILED tires (yet with excellent tread) equals more interest and coverage from Michelin, or so it appears . . . and my personal belief is that a widespread recall is essential ASAP as there WILL BE AT LEAST ONE high-speed tire failure will likely result in some remarkably bad injuries, deaths, and bad press. All of which are ostensibly fully avoidable in the post-Firestone/Ford Explorer era:
I'm still amazed at the number of posters here that somehow suggest that nearly invisible tire sidewall delamination is nothing to worry about . . . just insane lack of concern and once these MS end up with their second and third owners, we're going to see even more risk.
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As a reminder to all: when you have to have your 21" Michelin OEM tires replaced early, KEEP THE TIRES.
Unexplained pressure loss is likely the result of an internal failure within the tire and Michelin is, finally, making amends for some owners with either full or partial reimbursement.
Lastly, please take pictures of the inside edge/sidewall, if possible, for sharing here.
More pictures of FAILED tires (yet with excellent tread) equals more interest and coverage from Michelin, or so it appears . . . and my personal belief is that a widespread recall is essential ASAP as there WILL BE AT LEAST ONE high-speed tire failure will likely result in some remarkably bad injuries, deaths, and bad press. All of which are ostensibly fully avoidable in the post-Firestone/Ford Explorer era:
I'm still amazed at the number of posters here that somehow suggest that nearly invisible tire sidewall delamination is nothing to worry about . . . just insane lack of concern and once these MS end up with their second and third owners, we're going to see even more risk.
The tires aren't failing. If the tires were failing, you would see almost every post with both rear tires mutilated at the same time.
Yet, only one tire at a time for the majority of people & you still blame the tires.
...Or just maybe, it's a conspiracy and Tesla intentionally installed one bad tire and one good tire on every plaid they have built?
Easily among the most unintelligent posts on this entire website.
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, there's a random fault in the design or production of these tires that has a percentage of the tires being built with a pending failure mode: inner sidewall/tread delamination . . . that's what the anecdotal reports and photographs on this thread strongly suggest.
At this point, no one outside of Michelin knows what is driving these failures so suggesting that Tesla can predict which tires are "bad" in advance is quite absurd.
It's called Statistical Failure Analysis I believe.
The more failed (and pre-failed) 21" tires that Michelin can inspect, the faster they can pinpoint where their tire design and manufacturing process has an issue. The idea here is to get the bad tires removed from Teslas ASAP, preferably before there's a high-energy accident.
There's a "random fault" in a single tire on every plaid that has been produced, but never two faults on one car?
Also, I've had a set of goodyear f1's on now for a couple thousand miles and these are already showing excessive wear and flattening out the inside edge, just as the Michelins do. You want to guess what happens when I keep wearing down the inside edge? It may come as a surprise, but it will wear down the rubber and hit the belts and then separate.
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Thank you for your input, as sad as it may be.
I'm sure your sample size of "two" Goodyear tires is very, very impressive--in your mind--but meaningless otherwise.
Furthermore, if you'll pay closer attention to the thread's photographs of failed Michelin 21" tires you'll note that many of the the tread separation photographs reflect even (and in some cases, minimal) tread wear ACROSS THE ENTIRE TREAD.
Thus, your commentary appears to be an incorrect assessment of the Michelin 21" tire failure process.
Lastly: recommend you begin a study basic statistics.
Some cars will have no tire issues.
Some will have one tire issue.
Some will have two.
At the end of the day, your attempts to deflect and dismiss these tread separations only decrease safety. Please stop.
Thank you.
Yes, I will respect your observation that when a car has bad alignment settings and it wears down all of the rubber on the tire and hits the structural belts and comes apart, that is is absolutely not the fault of excessive and improper wear and is the fault of the manufacturer. Because the manufacturer should have built a tire that is able to be work completely down to the wheel and still retain its inflation, even though parts of the tire are damaged from said excessive wear.
Got it!
Now that's a remarkably odd post.
Tesla checked the alignment of our '22 Plaid with the 21" Michelin OEM tires and found it spot on, yet the rear tires have peculiar wear on the inside edge, at the tread/inner sidewall junction, despite very even wear across the tires' tread faces. (And both rear tires are losing air, with no leaks found, despite a "dunk tank" test looking for same, suggesting an internal defect in the tire(s). Interesting data point: the right rear is losing more air than the left, about like many here have found as well. Perhaps due to torque effects it's has more torque to absorb, or is that just a ICE thing?)
Our other MS Plaid has the 19" Pirelli OEM tire. It has perfectly normal wear (namely, none), no air leakage, and of special note, no oddities at the tread/inner sidewall junction. (And we'll just have to assume that it too has the OEM alignment settings since we've not checked.)
Yes, a sample size of only four tires, but given that there is no thread on 19" OEM Pirelli tire failures, well, you can go ahead and just blame the phase of the moon, or solar wind, or "evil spirits" for all those 21" Michelin tires coming apart . . . .
(Per chance, are you a Michelin employee, stock holder, or related to someone who is?)
It has been explained multiple times that the 19" tires have taller sidewalls and are more flexible, along with having much less width which would change the geometry of where the tire contacts the road.
I find it kind of interesting you literally just put me on blast for burning through a set of different brand tires saying it is irrelevant, then in a subsequent post you tried to explain how your test with a single car is reasonably acceptable.
You've made quite the error there.
As I have repeatedly pointed out, this is an entire thread devoted to Michelin 21" tire failures on the OEM Tesla tire. Obviously, this thread captures only a tiny subset of the total 21" Michelin tire failures, but we do know that these tires remain on chronic, nationwide, backorder, suggesting widespread failures on a car introduced only some 18 months ago, and with very limited production ramp.
There is no such thread for Tesla's other OEM Pirelli tire, despite the identical alignment settings. Yet you dismiss the apparent lack of even one public failure of the 19" tire (because of some interesting, at best, theorizing) . . . and "explain away" if it's somehow "okay" for the 21" Michelins to fail?
Got it.
(And wow.)
In strong contrast, your sample size of "two" for the Goodyear 21" tires is, ah, cute.
Let's just agree to disagree since logical thinking may not be your strong suit.
Thank you.
p.s. You forgot to answer the question posted earlier, so I'll post it again, and add some to it as well (just trying to find some explanation for illogical positions, and there's often a monetary component that drives such things):
Per chance, are you a Michelin employee, stock holder, or related to someone who is? Are you compensated, by any entity, in any way, directly or indirectly, for your posts? Do you have any affiliation or relationship of any kind with any tire industry element, such as advertisers, distributors, sales agents, manufacturers, marketer, etc.?
Rambino
Member
My Solution to this issue until it is resovled is simple:
I flip the back 2 tires once I see the inner wear is getting thin. Usually at around 4-6k miles for my driving. That allows me to use the full life of the tire. Shop pulls off the wheels, flips them around, re-balances.
21" Wheels, T2 Spec Tires
Its happend to me on 2 sets so far.. My alignment is spot on and done at a race shop.. If you have a heavy foot and love to drive the car hard, the constant load on the rear end under torque causes the car to squat which leads to heavy negative camber under load.. this in turn focuses the contact patch to the inner tire wall and eats them away.. No factory alignment can sort this..
If your a gentle driver and dont drive the car hard often, you are unlikely to get the tire issue problem
I suppose they will come up with a harder inner and outer layer of rubber in the future if the tires are updated; note these tires can roll in either direction.. it may compromise some of the corner handling with the stiffer rubber..other option is Tesla updates the suspension to counter the squat which means stiffer with less ride comfort.
Both solutions have their downsides.. Im happy to just flip my tires during the half life and continue on my way.
I flip the back 2 tires once I see the inner wear is getting thin. Usually at around 4-6k miles for my driving. That allows me to use the full life of the tire. Shop pulls off the wheels, flips them around, re-balances.
21" Wheels, T2 Spec Tires
Its happend to me on 2 sets so far.. My alignment is spot on and done at a race shop.. If you have a heavy foot and love to drive the car hard, the constant load on the rear end under torque causes the car to squat which leads to heavy negative camber under load.. this in turn focuses the contact patch to the inner tire wall and eats them away.. No factory alignment can sort this..
If your a gentle driver and dont drive the car hard often, you are unlikely to get the tire issue problem
I suppose they will come up with a harder inner and outer layer of rubber in the future if the tires are updated; note these tires can roll in either direction.. it may compromise some of the corner handling with the stiffer rubber..other option is Tesla updates the suspension to counter the squat which means stiffer with less ride comfort.
Both solutions have their downsides.. Im happy to just flip my tires during the half life and continue on my way.
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n2mb_racing
Active Member
Rambino
Member
Flip meaning, flip the rear tires around on the rim.. they arent directional, so it doesnt affect anything..
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Hayseed_MS
Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
They are not directional per se, they are asymmetrical. They are engineered to have an inside and outside for functional reasons.
Rambino
Member
Agreed, however there isnt any directional mounting markings, so I assume even though they have an asymmetrical tread, they are also non-directional. No?
From other sources online it confirms the same.. However visually you would want the side with the larger patch on the outside of the rim, but in my experience rotating them around, theres been no noticable difference which direction the tires are mounted..
From other sources online it confirms the same.. However visually you would want the side with the larger patch on the outside of the rim, but in my experience rotating them around, theres been no noticable difference which direction the tires are mounted..
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