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Politics - Quarantine Thread

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If you want to be ignorant and post crap like this then so be it. However, whenever you do I'm going to call you on your BS. Good lord, there's stupid and then there's this. Stop watching Faux News, stop listening to conservative talk radio and come join the rest of us who live in reality.

Jeff
 
If you want to be ignorant and post crap like this then so be it. However, whenever you do I'm going to call you on your BS. Good lord, there's stupid and then there's this. Stop watching Faux News, stop listening to conservative talk radio and come join the rest of us who live in reality.

Jeff
this really isn't the place for a debate of this nature, but if you could please explain where all the free *sugar* will be coming from and who will be paying for it.
 
this really isn't the place for a debate of this nature, but if you could please explain where all the free *sugar* will be coming from and who will be paying for it.

Then don't go there if you think this isn't the place, you brought it up, not me.

Taxes, I'm sure you've heard of those? There is more to this, but as you put it, this really isn't the place for a debate of this nature...

Jeff
 
Nope -- not if you get sick.

Normal countries have universal health care. All developed countries do. The UK has its National Health Service, which is considered by objective observers to be the best health system in the world, as well as the cheapest. Even *Mexico* has universal health care.

Universal healthcare means uniformly universal poor health care for all at lower cost and a better "value." The cost savings come from cutting access to care, paying providers less which leads to less providers and longer waittimes for specialty care, and limiting access to new drugs.

Lack of CT scanners and helicopter care which are commonplace in the U.S. lead to: Natasha Richardson's death in Canada: Natasha Richardson: Tragic Delays After Her Fatal Fall

Canadian's cross the border due to long wait times for surgery. http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...tients+south+surgery+Video/9702357/story.html

There are very many cancer drugs that are not available throughout Europe that are common in the U.S. all related to cost. Comparison of Anticancer Drug Coverage Decisions in the United States and United Kingdom - Research Database, The University of York

The examples are endless. It turns out that you get what you pay. We have a costly system with universal access to all. It is a blantant lie that care isn't universal here. The poor get sick and get the exact same operations and chemotherapy here that the middle and upper classes do. No hospital that I have ever worked at has turned away a sick person or provided substandard care based on $. The hospitals in other countries won't turn you away either, but they won't provided state-of-the-art care to anyone because it isn't covered for anyone.

A common argument against our costly care is poorer outcomes and more health problems but are most of those problems caused by healthcare. Does a doctor make his patient's obese stuffing them with big macs and fries? Does a doctor have pill that replaces exercise? Do health care providers have magic tools to remove illegal drugs from the abusing electorate? Our costs are high because we provide better care to everyone in a populace that won't take care of itself.

And don't worry, the U.S. will soon be a lower cost place with lower quality care based on the ACA and policies restricting access to care that are being made throughout the U.S. on Medicare and Medicaid patients. Be careful what you ask for.

Then there's the uniquely American system of saddling college graduates with immense debts which cannot be discharged even in bankruptcy. So, get sick two years out of college? You're in debt for life.

Don't choose degrees that cost a ton but have no value. You want value in healthcare but not value in education? Free colleges with useless free degrees won't fix people not having money or increase social mobility. A valueless, free degree won't make people be out of debt. We should be encouraging and inspiring our young to acquire valuable degrees that contribute to our growth as a nation on the global scale and valuing education. That starts at home at age 1 not at a free college at age 30+.

Medical schools combine both these problems -- all the best doctors are trained overseas now, becuase you'd have to be crazy or stupid to take on US medical school debt when you can graduate debt-free from nearly any medical school anywhere else in the world.

This comment makes me laugh even though its extremely insulting to my American trained colleagues and myself. Where is your evidence that the best doctors are trained overseas? Don't just listen to talking points.

Actually, nearly everything Bernie is proposing either existed in the US under Eisenhower, or has been established in all of Europe for over 50 years with success. His tax rates on the ultra-rich would be *lower* than Eisenhower's tax rates on the ultra-rich. But of course in the US people refer to such conservative plans as "radical".

Bernie Sanders pays a effective rate of 13% currently. Right now he rights off more than 99% of Americans on his own personal taxes. The modern champion of tax reform utilizes dirty taxation policies better than 99% of us. Do you really think that switching to 90% or even 55% effective rates is something that he would even personally be willing to do?http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presr...AF0C85257EB4004E9F66/$file/B_Sanders_2014.pdf

Also what as the effective rate back in Eisenhower's days when the tax code let people write off even more? What percentage of American's paid taxes back then? What 50 year European success stories to you speak of? Post-war Germany? Eastern Europe? Spain or Greece economics? True history is important. Not the redacted and politically correct version.

This all seems very off topic, but I certainly didn't start it. Republicans aren't evil even in Montana. Neither are democrats or independents. Americans need to unify and compromise instead of divide and hate. Neither party seems to be good at coming together anymore and thus the hate at places like Superior; hatred stoked by the parties and propagated by their misled sheep. Musk and a few people left like him seem to be able to cross the divides and meet people in the middle on issues of great importance: energy independence and a cleaner Earth. Go Tesla.
 
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How old are you? Because that story is common for people who grew up from the 1930s through the 1970s, and very uncommon among people growing up in the 1990s or later.

There's a reason younger people are supporting Bernie overwhelmingly; they recognize what country they're living in *now*, rather than assuming it's the same as it was in the 1950s. It started declining under Reagan and has gotten worse since then. This is not arguable (though certain paid flacks attempt to argue it occasionally). This is proven fact.

Socio-economic mobility in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read that wiki again especially the last two articles referenced:

A large academic study released in 2014 found income mobility has not changed appreciably in the last 20 years

LEONHARDT, DAVID (January 23, 2014). "Upward Mobility Has Not Declined, Study Says". New York Times. Retrieved January 23, 2014.

Chetty, Raj; Nathaniel Henderson; Patrick Kline; Emmanuel Saez; Nicholas Turner. "NBER WORKING PAPER SERIES, WHERE IS THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY? THE GEOGRAPHY OF INTERGENERATIONAL MOBILITY IN THE UNITED STATES" (PDF). January 2014. Equality of Opportunity Project. Retrieved 23 January 2014.

May you should edit that out of the wiki to better support your views.

To add, I am one of the successful 8% that moved from a $50 net worth of my parents at marriage to an upper class. The same 8% upward mobility success rate as in 1950.
 
Walla2 is spot on. On everything…You go to the UK is the tv is filled with stories of shortages and poorly trained docs and shortage of good ones. In canada see how long it takes to get a surgery that you can get in the US in a week????Could be up to a year!

If you think health cares is expensive now…Just wait until it is free!
 
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Well, at least it wasn't Caitlyn Jenner. ;)







Not because of the whole LGBT thing, but because Jenner was towing unsafely on PCH which killed a woman and apparently got away with it. Sort of like when royalty would kill a peasant in the street, it is acceptable.
 
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While I am not condemning Andrew Jackson as such, he was never a "fan" of a "national bank" in the US. So why is he on the US currency to begin with?

All the forefathers were slave owners, so I don't think that is being used as a criteria as to whether their portraits are on currency or not. Clearly slavery is a horrible smear on American history. If that were the criteria, you'd have to change every portrait on US currency.

Being progressive does not mean we reject everything from the past, only the things that were clearly wrong. I don't think there is much argument about slavery being wrong. Just my opinion . . .
 
Clearly slavery is a horrible smear on American history.
you do realize that the US didn't invent slavery? and do you realize that slavery has and does continue to exist, and do you realize that slavery wasn't exclusive to africans? sure slavery is a blight on humanity and I'll repeat my statement; to condemn these people from the past who partook in what was at the time legal and accepted in their world based on today's values is specious.
 
It's a little late for America to pretend we are intelligent when it comes to politics.

We had a pro-wrestler as a governor, and a body builder as a governor. A movie star as a President, and a reality show host running for President this year. And a President who won a Nobel Prize by being born.

About the Revisionist History Generation?

Slavery still exists today but is nearly gone. Both Germany and Japan had legal slavery just 70 years ago. There are still ex-slaves alive today, but few are from African decent. Asian and European. BMW recently apologized for using slaves in their factories. A little late, eh?

When the Civil War ended, the last of the slaves released were from New York due a loophole in the law. Slavery was only abolished at first for the rebel states, exempting the northern states.
 
I wasn't aware being an actor and/or a body builder should disqualify someone from holding office. Seems logical though. Everyone in office should come from a virginal vacuum.

Also wondering if anyone actually got out of trouble by telling their parents "...but Suzy and Timmy did it too!"?
 
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