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Poll: FSD is awesome even though it is not FSD

FSD is awesome even though it is not FSD.


  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .

SomeJoe7777

Marginally-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
2,191
5,686
Houston, TX
I have two Model 3's with EAP/HW2.5. NoA is unusable and always has been. It requires user intervention at least every 3-5 minutes while on the highway to prevent it from doing something stupid. It has no planning or executive capability.

My reasoning has always been this: If NoA can't be made to work properly on controlled access highways, which is the easiest scenario in driving, then FSD on surface streets, which has the added complications of traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrians, construction, stopped vehicles, etc. is not possible. Properly working NoA on highways is a necessary prerequisite for surface streets FSD, and the prerequisite is not even close to working.

I have a new Model X on order, I ordered it without FSD because the system is useless. When it's actually working at level 4 or higher (or at least level 3 on highways -- i.e. >60 minutes between interventions with at least 10 second warning before an intervention is required), then I'll purchase. But I don't have to worry, my Model X that isn't even delivered yet will be 10 years old and in need of replacement by the time that happens.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,018
3,839
Kihei, HI
Model 3 HW 2.5.

EAP is worth every penny I paid for it. Since the only thing FSD buyers seem to have that I don't is the stoplight thing that requires confirmation to keep going and a more detailed display on the screen, I would say that FSD is worth what I paid for EAP.

Except that now, AP is standard, and has almost every EAP feature that I actually use. (I can change lanes some of the time by using the stalk alone. AP does not have that feature. I never use summon, and the one time I tried to use auto-park the car would not recognize a space.) So compared to AP I'd say that FSD isn't worth much of anything.

If something were to happen to my car I'd buy another Model 3 with plain AP. I'd buy FSD just for the heck of it if it cost $250. Not $10K.
 

El joe

Member
Jan 29, 2019
717
577
SF Bay Area, CA
FSD would be amazing at a lower price. EAP at $4k was the sweet spot to me, especially since it does like 90% of what FSD does for most people now -- once the beta rolls out, that'll change. But until then, it's just too pricey to me.
 
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DanCar

Active Member
Oct 2, 2013
2,020
1,774
SF Bay Area
Pro tip : Your options should be mutually exclusive.
Amateur tip: purpose of poll is for entertainment and not to make money as the word "pro" implies.
Pro: A person who earns their living from a specified activity.
In other words, we are just going to be a bit silly and not take things too seriously.
 
Last edited:
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daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,018
3,839
Kihei, HI
Not for thousands of dollars. It's essentially summon and autopark, which are party tricks.

And which EAP already has. For people with EAP, FSD is stoplight and stop sign recognition, requiring confirmation. And FSD is intended for city use, which EAP is not. (EAP will work in the city, but its intention is highway use.)

On the highway autosteer works really well because most situations requiring disengagement are apparent from far enough away to allow the driver to take over easily. In the city many situations requiring disengagement appear suddenly, requiring a much faster reaction time. Since both AP/EAP and FSD are Level 2, the less reaction time you have the more problematic is the safe operation of the system. I quit using autosteer in the city for this reason. I see nothing in FSD that would make city operation any safer than it is with EAP.

When and if FSD becomes Level 3 in the city, it will be a game-changer because the driver will not have to react to bicyclists or pedestrians or other unexpected situations, since the car will be responsible for alerting the driver with sufficient time to take over safely. Until then, FSD is just a video game you play while driving a potentially lethal machine.

I love EAP on the highway. To repeat: It was worth every penny I paid for it. I see no value in FSD other than the hope that if it ever truly becomes full self-driving you'll have gotten it at a lower price. But that really doesn't look to be coming during the ten years or so that I expect to own this car. (Which started in 2018.)
 
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DanCar

Active Member
Oct 2, 2013
2,020
1,774
SF Bay Area
I think autopilot / driving assist is awesome. Is there another vehicle that lets me invoke level 2 (steering assist + speed assist) on so many roads? It stops me from considering other vehicles.
 
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SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
3,143
9,813
MI
Other: current functionality not for 10k.

I paid 5k for all of autopilot/FSD during the fire sale. Before that, I just had dumb cruise, not TACC. So worth it for that price. Will be glad when the phantom braking is resolved. Happened to me once on 2k mile trip recently. Was due to an overhead electronic sign that was different than anything I had seen before.

I definitely use EAP features for my road trips. And I do like the alert on green feature although it isn’t 100% accurate. I still always look before going anyway.
 
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BMW740iL

Active Member
Nov 9, 2019
1,328
654
Amsterdam
As a reference and for entertaining purpose while you are waiting for FSD you can watch this video with George Hotz doing a Willy Wonka tour of Openpilot the $1k level 2 autopilot for all your non-Tesla vehicles.

 

raptor5244

Active Member
May 10, 2019
1,194
878
Florida
I have two Model 3's with EAP/HW2.5. NoA is unusable and always has been. It requires user intervention at least every 3-5 minutes while on the highway to prevent it from doing something stupid. It has no planning or executive capability.

My reasoning has always been this: If NoA can't be made to work properly on controlled access highways, which is the easiest scenario in driving, then FSD on surface streets, which has the added complications of traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrians, construction, stopped vehicles, etc. is not possible. Properly working NoA on highways is a necessary prerequisite for surface streets FSD, and the prerequisite is not even close to working.

I have a new Model X on order, I ordered it without FSD because the system is useless. When it's actually working at level 4 or higher (or at least level 3 on highways -- i.e. >60 minutes between interventions with at least 10 second warning before an intervention is required), then I'll purchase. But I don't have to worry, my Model X that isn't even delivered yet will be 10 years old and in need of replacement by the time that happens.
Agreed. I love Tesla but I still can't believe they keep raising the price on the falsely advertised "Full Self Driving" software. IMO, this will have to come down in price until the car actually drives as good or better than we do. If you have to babysit and intervene it is easier to and less aggravating to just drive on your own. On the highway dynamic cruise control (common feature now, found on Honda Civics) and Autosteer can help reduce some fatigue but it still nags you constantly. I applaud the effort but $10K is a lot to ask for this. A low priced subscription would be much better. $20 a month for FSD, that should be enough to keep the developers funded to keep working on this.
 

Biggie

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 6, 2020
14
18
Amarillo, TX
It does not work all the time. It can chime when the arrow turns on and you are going straight and vice versa. So, no, this half baked "feature" isn't worth $3K.

But I'm sure it'll all be fixed when FSD comes out in n+1 months.
For me, it only appears to work when you are first in line. It does not ding when you are behind someone else at the light.
 

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