Possible Model 3

[nvx1977]

Similarly, there's an environmental cost to building batteries. You may not care about these issues personally, except insofar as they're reflected in the price of the car, but if you do care about them, it's best to not go overboard on range. I'm not trying to push hard on this issue, but thought it was worth mentioning.

I don't think the hypothesis that longer range EVs are more detrimental to the environment is conclusive yet. I've heard the arguments, but I also know that the per-cell strain (C-rate) on a smaller battery pack is higher than on a larger pack (more cells to distribute the charge), so the larger pack will have a longer lifespan. While true today's battery recycling industry is in a poor state, that might not be true at the end-of-life of today's Teslas, particularly if the EV movement does start to catch on in the next few years. And with Teslas in particular, the demand for salvaged cars' battery packs are really high. The DIY crowd is making up for the lack of battery recycling centers. Those cells are being repurposed for other electric bikes, ICE-to-EV conversions, and home storage solutions.

We're not seeing widespread failures from 2012-2013 Model S packs, and as capacity curves have shown, the degradation significantly slows once it reaches around 90%. Those packs are still quite good at holding their charge.

 

[Phlier]

I predict that won't last. It will quickly become your primary car.

This.

Get as much Tesla as you can afford. You won't regret it, and it *will* end up being your primary car.

 

[wdolson]

I don't think the hypothesis that longer range EVs are more detrimental to the environment is conclusive yet. I've heard the arguments, but I also know that the per-cell strain (C-rate) on a smaller battery pack is higher than on a larger pack (more cells to distribute the charge), so the larger pack will have a longer lifespan. While true today's battery recycling industry is in a poor state, that might not be true at the end-of-life of today's Teslas, particularly if the EV movement does start to catch on in the next few years. And with Teslas in particular, the demand for salvaged cars' battery packs are really high. The DIY crowd is making up for the lack of battery recycling centers. Those cells are being repurposed for other electric bikes, ICE-to-EV conversions, and home storage solutions.

We're not seeing widespread failures from 2012-2013 Model S packs, and as capacity curves have shown, the degradation significantly slows once it reaches around 90%. Those packs are still quite good at holding their charge.

An LR car takes a bit more resources to make and will consume a bit more energy per mile (or km) over the lifetime of the car. But to put it on a rough scale it's the difference between a 7 and 8 on a scale of 0-100 when a Prius is around 30 and a Ford F-150 is around 90.

The longer the cells are out there in the world the less impact their manufacturing means in the end. Alkaline batteries are a lot worse than car batteries. Those need replacing fairly frequently and most end up in land fills.

 

[cronosx]

I don't think the hypothesis that longer range EVs are more detrimental to the environment is conclusive yet. I've heard the arguments, but I also know that the per-cell strain (C-rate) on a smaller battery pack is higher than on a larger pack (more cells to distribute the charge),

That's simply not true.
Fewer cell -> slower charge.
That's all
You will not exeed or get a more aggressive C rate in a cell because you have less cell, Tesla is smart enought to keep the max charging rate for every minute at the max acceptable for the battery, so as said, fewer cell means a slower charge
Keep in mind that often the limit is in the carger and/or in the temperature dissipation, so you don't get an exact X% less charging speed since you have X% less battery

If you really want to put your flag down on it you can call on "if you have fewer cell you cycle them often so you reduce their life faster", but it's relevant only if you put on it many miles, since the cell degrade 'naturally' over time even if not used so often

 

[SimonT]

Test drive tomorrow

 

[tomas]

The general advice in these parts is to buy as much range as your budget will allow - and you'll never feel bad that you did. You might (feel remorse) if you buy less range up front.

Edit: Something to keep in mind... Most recommend charging to 80% (unless heading out on a long trip) and "filling up" before 20%. That leaves 65% of real daily range. So, for a 310 mile rated LR AWD, that's about 201 miles. Now, add cold weather, and that number's lower. Same math applies to lower rated range models...

No. Daily charge of 90% works fine and is within recommendations. There’s no issue with going to 10 or below, but most won’t want to get that close to zero. So you’ve really got 80% or more to work with on daily basis if you need it. Having said that, very, very few people drive more than 200 miles per day regularly. So if you have daily charging access, range anxiety is a complete non issue for 99% of drivers.

 

[jebinc]

No. Daily charge of 90% works fine and is within recommendations. There’s no issue with going to 10 or below, but most won’t want to get that close to zero. So you’ve really got 80% or more to work with on daily basis if you need it. Having said that, very, very few people drive more than 200 miles per day regularly. So if you have daily charging access, range anxiety is a complete non issue for 99% of drivers.

@ Tomas - YMMV, but you forgot to include the cold weather factor to your optimistic 80%. Cold weather also reduces range due to battery and human heating. Also, I think there are few people here in TMC land that run their battery down to 10%....

 

[SimonT]

@ Tomas - YMMV, but you forgot to include the cold weather factor to your optimistic 80%. Cold weather also reduces range due to battery and human heating. Also, I think there are few people here in TMC land that run their battery down to 10%....

What do people mean by cold weather? Here in blighty we are usually between 10 and 20' (50 to 68f) for the majority of day time driving.

 

[tomas]

What do people mean by cold weather? Here in blighty we are usually between 10 and 20' (50 to 68f) for the majority of day time driving.

Range tends to drop noticeably when temperature gets below 45f. More drop when lower. This happens mainly when battery is cold. So if you drive lots of short distances in winter weather, your range impact can be 30% or so. However if you use the preheating feature and/or drive longer distances, the effect is reduced.

 

[tomas]

@ Tomas - YMMV, but you forgot to include the cold weather factor to your optimistic 80%. Cold weather also reduces range due to battery and human heating. Also, I think there are few people here in TMC land that run their battery down to 10%....

I didn’t include comment on cold because I don’t disagree with that. People don’t run down to 10% mainly because most charge nightly and do not use anywhere near the available battery on a daily basis. IMO, and I’ve owned since 2012, Tesla has successfully eliminated range anxiety as an issue for the vast majority of owners. Doesn’t stop people from talking about it obviously!

 

[jebinc]

I didn’t include comment on cold because I don’t disagree with that. People don’t run down to 10% mainly because most charge nightly and do not use anywhere near the available battery on a daily basis. IMO, and I’ve owned since 2012, Tesla has successfully eliminated range anxiety as an issue for the vast majority of owners. Doesn’t stop people from talking about it obviously!

Fair enough. I too charge every night and have a HPWC. Given this, being retired, and for me, I charge to 75% and only get down to the mid 40’s on most days. I like having the capacity so when I do head out for a long trip, I don’t have to stop so frequently, or hunt down super chargers, and wait for 30 minutes each time. That’s one nice thing with ICE cars - less stopping and waiting. For me, LR AWD was best.

 

[M109Rider]

Test drive tomorrow

Let us know what you think.

 

[boriszima]

Get longer range if you can afford it. Nicer interior will go well with your commute.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I took delivery of my M3 SR+ RWD eight days ago and here is my $0.02

I COULD have afforded the LR or even the P (for that matter, probably an S). But since I tend to be conservative with my money, I went with what I did. My daily commute is about 44 miles (about 71K) + occasional side trips and since the have not yet installed my 220 source at work, I have only been charging on 110 at home and that has easily kept up with my power needs.

The only disappointment I have with the car is the sound system. It is not bad in the SR+ (Semi-Premium interior), the one in a full Premium interior is better. I just had a hard time convincing myself to spend $6K for that.

 

[jebinc]

What do people mean by cold weather? Here in blighty we are usually between 10 and 20' (50 to 68f) for the majority of day time driving.

@SimonT - Hello, how was the test drive?

"Cold" is relative. The batteries like it warm/hot (to maximize current flow and recharging); anything less than that optimal temp (don't recall what that number is, 75 degrees F?) may cause a draw for battery heating. I believe the batteries heat themselves up prior to and during a supercharging session as well.

For human heating, range will plummet if you use the cabin hot air heater, seat warmers, etc. If you must warm yourself, the car seat heaters are way more efficient than the cabin hot air heaters.

 

[ElectricLee]

Tesla EV means freedom to travel with the Supercharger Network.

 

[SimonT]

@SimonT - Hello, how was the test drive?

"Cold" is relative. The batteries like it warm/hot (to maximize current flow and recharging); anything less than that optimal temp (don't recall what that number is, 75 degrees F?) may cause a draw for battery heating. I believe the batteries heat themselves up prior to and during a supercharging session as well.

For human heating, range will plummet if you use the cabin hot air heater, seat warmers, etc. If you must warm yourself, the car seat heaters are way more efficient than the cabin hot air heaters.

Very good - to be fair my wife drove as technically it will be her car.

We are just waiting for the lease quotes but we will be going for the LR AWD in black with white interior. We have requested a quote with and without the full self drive software.

 

[jebinc]

Very good - to be fair my wife drove as technically it will be her car.

We are just waiting for the lease quotes but we will be going for the LR AWD in black with white interior. We have requested a quote with and without the full self drive software.

Awesome! you (and she) will have no regrets going with the LR AWD!

 

[notAnExpert]

...
We are just waiting for the lease quotes but we will be going for the LR AWD in black with white interior. We have requested a quote with and without the full self drive software.

Doesn't Tesla do online sales in the U.K. like they do in the U.S.? I'm curious why you are getting a quote from a human.

 

[Viking79]

What do people mean by cold weather? Here in blighty we are usually between 10 and 20' (50 to 68f) for the majority of day time driving.

My definitions of temperature, depends on season, if it is going into or coming out of winter
Winter is coming: first day with highs around 35 F.
Cold, highs around 20 to 30 F, lows around 0 to 10 F, typical winter day in Iowa.
Very cold: Highs around 0 to 10 F, lows sub 0 F (like -10 or -20 F)

When you start getting below 30 F you absolutely have to use air heating to keep windows clear of fog (or crack your windows, which is not pleasant at 0 F), seat heating is great for those mildly cold days to avoid heater use.

When you hit "Very cold" your range will be dramatically shortened, maybe 50%, depending on how you drive and if car is preheated. For reference, my i3 got about 25-35 miles range at -24 F (starting from garage around 5 F) and 100 miles range at 85 F (no climate control, ideal speeds). EPA is around 70 miles.