The issue is not the pw3, it is all the solar you have planned. Whats the plan when you have a full battery by 11am in summer and than have to export that significant array through your single phase 40a connection? I may be wrong, but not sure that you can even install more than 10kw of solar in a single phase connection
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Powerwall 3 Roadmap - 3 Phase Coming!
- Thread starter louco73
- Start date
Any thoughts (guesses) on how long before PW3 gets here? Like 3 months or 18? I was just about to press GO on a full solar+PW2 system (8kw Fronius, 11kw 440W panels, PW2 + Gateway) which is coming in at 28k out-of-pocket (premium installer quote). Seems like it I waited for PW3 then I would eliminate the need for the Fronius inverter plus a fair bit of install time (=cost) and simpler wiring, so overall it must be something like 4K or 5K cheaper?? Or would the PW3 purchase price jump from around 10,500 now up to closer to 15K?
Thinking I will hold off just a little and monitor developments. Where (in the world) do they produce Powerwalls and would we expect a very slow ramp up of production of a completely new model? Is battery cell supply likely to be a throttle point?
Final thought, what sort of regulatory approval would be needed here? Is that another pain point in terms of time to installs starting?
Cheers leconte
Thinking I will hold off just a little and monitor developments. Where (in the world) do they produce Powerwalls and would we expect a very slow ramp up of production of a completely new model? Is battery cell supply likely to be a throttle point?
Final thought, what sort of regulatory approval would be needed here? Is that another pain point in terms of time to installs starting?
Cheers leconte
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The limit for the local distributor is 10kW inverter connection on single phase. So the 9.6kW version of the PW3 complies, or some other 10kW inverter. he solar is rally sized to work better through the Melbourne winters so in summer it charges the Model 3, heats the spa or supplies whatever other load I can throw at it. The remainder of the generation gets curtailed. If I find it's an issue in future I can always upgrade to 3 phase later and get a full 15kW export limit.
Max Spaghetti
Member
Noted.
Oh, so now you are worried about cost?
Just pulling apart your argument here. If you can't generate enough solar in winter, what about an OVO or AGL EV plan with 8c/kWh midnight-6am? You don't need ToU to get that. You can refill your batteries with that. And as an SA resident with arguably the most expensive power in Australia, that 8c plan with sufficient battery to store it would be awesome - you could be one of the few who can actually make battery storage make financial sense.
I would kill for 3 batteries (I assume you mean 3 PW's = 40.5 kWh), but I don't have $45K to purchase them. But here in Victoria with cheap polluting brown coal, there is no way an accountant can make a battery make financial sense.
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The AGL plan is not available for my postcode
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My meter is a flat rate meter. It has no form of peak or off peak. The only meter options available tome are flat rate or tou.
I have detailed modelling to determine my best power supplier based on a previous rolling 12 months. OVO and agl plans for my address are not even close to being better for me…not that I pay a lot.
I paid nothing like $45k for my 3 powerwall. Close to half that.
People are captured by marketing of portions of the energy plan such as "EV charging" but the provider does not know that an EV is charging. And they ignore the totality of plan and how it affects their actual electricity bill.
The only way to compare is to spreadsheet the actual bills and model the proposed plan.
For example my electricity provider has peak rates for only weekdays and then only 8 months of the year. the other 4 months are the shoulder period. It . Another provider has 8c/kWh "EV charging" but has peak rates for every single day of the year. The only way is to model it on a spreadsheet.
How did that happen?
TOU is peak, offpeak, shoulder. Most providers will change meters to a new digital. Though I dont believe that there is any significant benefit to the consumer.
Absolutely agree with you re modelling, and that is why my modelling is over a full year. My modelling includes both meter types that I have access to, and TOU will add around $20 to my annual cost on the best plan I can find. This factors in my battery use, solar array, and maximising its potential.
If a provider is offering a new free meter then it will definately be to their benefit, not mine.
I purchased when there were significant rebates available in SA and the prices were still reasonable. There was also a rebate for VPP so I used that rebate but opted out of the VPP shortly after.
DNSPs just need a trigger to install a digital meter, like a customer installing solar, or converting to 3-phase. My DNSP did it at no charge when I installed solar.
Yes it is to their benefit, because first they no longer need to employ anyone to visit your address and physically read it (smart meters communicate readings OTA at least once every 30 minutes) and second the homeowner now has choice to change to a ToU electricity plan, which is not possible with spinning dial meters.
But ToU plans can be of benefit to customers too, as it is in my case. Modelling my power consumption and solar generation patterns, no fixed rate tariff I have modelled is better than a ToU tariff. That is because despite my modestly sized solar array and single PW2, in 2023, I managed to shift 79% of my grid electricity consumption to offpeak. Only 16% is shoulder, and a mere 5% is peak.
Finally we can never have a “smart grid” without smart meters. If you want to see a renewable-only grid that is well-managed to everyone’s benefit, then everyone will eventually need a smart meter.
It is really interesting how much an installation and use patterns can severely influence the best power plan for a property
It's a reflection of the inherently unusual properties of electrical energy as a commodity, which conspires to mean that when you use the power is at least as important as how much you use.
SA I see where they did great battery incentives.
I got 2 years of power/solar from Jemena.. Then did the sums with like 10 plans.
Then added two EV's on top think added 2800kw..
Max Spaghetti
Member
I was on a fixed tariff. Now I am on a fixed tariff with an overnight super-off-peak on the EV plan.
In my location, the fixed tariff with AGL is exactly the same on the EV plan as it is on their otherwise cheapest fixed tariff plan. The super-off-peak is purely a bonus, you are not "paying for it" with a higher tariff the rest of the day.
I could get a 2c cheaper fixed tariff with another provider, but simple modelling dictates that I am better off on the AGL EV plan. I average 20kWh per day of EV charging which is a considerable percentage of whole-house usage, and I don't have solar panels.
Victoria installed free smart meters to virtually every home in the state at least a decade ago.
Which I guess is the only way OVO and AGL can offer the super off-peak EV plans - if I didn't have a smart meter they wouldn't be able to calculate it.
This is the first time I have had any benefit from this smart meter - looking at ToU plans over the years they have never had any attraction to me - not owning a battery to time-shift my usage, and being a consumer who actually does consume power in peak periods.
Max Spaghetti
Member
Not sure if we are confusing off-peak with controlled load.
I also have controlled load, but I don't use it (it's not much cheaper than the normal tariff). It's available for storage hot water service, slab heating, and/or with a dedicated circuit - EV charging. I don't use it for hot water because I changed over to heat pump hot water, and I don't use it for EV charging because the AGL EV plan is better.
The super-off-peak that AGL/OVO offer in my area is just single tariff but they offer a special time of day of cheap power. OVO also offer another plan with a 3 hour window during the day of free power. This is all enabled by a smart meter, but is not "Time of Use" (ToU) - that is a separate thing again.
So you may find that if you upgrade (free) to a smart meter, it becomes available to you. (Doesn't necessarily mean it's the best option for you of course).
Unless it changed recently, in SA once you export power with solar, your meter choice is flat rate meter or smart meter. The smart meter can be tou or flat rate. If you dont export power then you can also have a controlled load meter (so that is not me). Many retailers only offer tou plans on smart meters, and those plans are very different to the other states. A tou plan in sa on a smart meter can be used for the ‘ev’ plans but my modelling suggests it wont provide me any financial gain. This is mostly because most tou plans limit the FIT to a maximum amount, and indeed many will not even take you as a client if you have more than 10kw of panels. It is hidden in their fine print. FIT has a major impact on my modelling.
In Victoria the Govt just dropped the minimum FIT from 4.9 to 3.3 cents per kWh. Ouch. And the ranges for ToU as well. Reported in the Age today.
www.theage.com.au
While it's been poor for several years this is a big 32% drop and other market offers are sure to drop accordingly. I guess it reinforces the need for battery storage to make best sense of solar.
Has anyone got comments on my Powerwall 3 questions posted on Monday? Seems not much interest here on PW3, maybe everyone here already has solar. Current installers I am talking to don't want to talk about it in case it delays sales of PW2 systems now.
Solar tariffs slashed as Victoria ‘awash’ with rooftop energy
Victorians with rooftop solar will take a 32 per cent hit to the minimum rate they collect from feeding power to the grid.
While it's been poor for several years this is a big 32% drop and other market offers are sure to drop accordingly. I guess it reinforces the need for battery storage to make best sense of solar.
Has anyone got comments on my Powerwall 3 questions posted on Monday? Seems not much interest here on PW3, maybe everyone here already has solar. Current installers I am talking to don't want to talk about it in case it delays sales of PW2 systems now.
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I dont know a lot about PW3, but if it includes an inverter than I reckon it will cost more. As for when…who knows.