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JeffK
Well-Known Member
If they can do it for the model 3 at a low cost then I really think it'll be the way to go. It'll allow better longevity and as a side effect, cells can distribute heat better than the blanks the Model S was using for the smaller packs.
Garlan Garner
Banned
This is actually brilliant. people who choose base battery get to charge to 100% without penalty. Those who upgrade get a higher max charge and free supercharger to help ease the sting of a $7500-8500 upgrade.
The battery upgrade prices seem so extreme as/is. If you offer free supercharging to those who with the larger battery, won't need it as often, its a win for tesla and a nice perk for its users.
The battery upgrade prices seem so extreme as/is. If you offer free supercharging to those who with the larger battery, won't need it as often, its a win for tesla and a nice perk for its users.
alseTrick
Active Member
There are still TWO batteries for the Model S and X: A 75kWh and a 90kWh.
The 3 likely won't diverge too far from what the S and X are doing.
The 3 likely won't diverge too far from what the S and X are doing.
Realistically, what would be the largest size battery (using today's Model S batteries - sorta 'AA' size) that would fit in the current Model 3 as it is designed?
alseTrick
Active Member
I'm not sure any of them would fit. No matter whether it's the 75kWh or the 90kWh, the battery still looks like this:
The only difference is that apparently there are "fake" "AA" batteries in the 75kWh pack (or whatever that contraption is called) in place of real batteries in the 90kWh.
So since a Model 3 won't fit on that, I think the only answer to your question is none.
Mark Z
Active Member
@Model 3 has the right idea. I read the entire thread to see if someone brought up the 90% charge for longevity.
Keep in mind that GM only allows 50% of their battery to be used in the VOLT. The state of charge is between 30% to 80% and that keeps their battery giving the same range throughout its lifetime of 8 years.
The new 60 kW Model X has a larger battery, and I wouldn't doubt if it is for that reason. IMHO, if an owner pays extra to charge to 100%, that is insurance for Tesla to replace the battery sooner if it fails before the 8 years is up. If the owner never updates, then the battery lasts longer.
Keep in mind that GM only allows 50% of their battery to be used in the VOLT. The state of charge is between 30% to 80% and that keeps their battery giving the same range throughout its lifetime of 8 years.
The new 60 kW Model X has a larger battery, and I wouldn't doubt if it is for that reason. IMHO, if an owner pays extra to charge to 100%, that is insurance for Tesla to replace the battery sooner if it fails before the 8 years is up. If the owner never updates, then the battery lasts longer.
I'm not sure any of them would fit. No matter whether it's the 75kWh or the 90kWh, the battery still looks like this:
The only difference is that apparently there are "fake" "AA" batteries in the 75kWh pack (or whatever that contraption is called) in place of real batteries in the 90kWh.
So since a Model 3 won't fit on that, I think the only answer to your question is none.
Since the Model 3 will use the a new larger battery format with greater energy density we can't really can't answer smartypnz's question.
alseTrick
Active Member
If Tesla wanted to make their batteries last for as long as possible, what they should do is only use a part of its capacity leaving margins at both ends so when the indicator shows a full charge, it will only be charged 90% of its total capacity. Likewise when it shows 10% charge remaining, it would actually hold 20% of charge. This will be what GM does with their volt but it will be more relevant to Tesla being a pure EV. But of course then they cannot claim full capacity range but better to have less battery degradation than not, if I had a choice.
BTW I predict that eventually all Teslas will share the same battery architecture and macro construction. Just doesn't make sense to have different types for different models - doesn't scale well IMO.
BTW I predict that eventually all Teslas will share the same battery architecture and macro construction. Just doesn't make sense to have different types for different models - doesn't scale well IMO.
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ccutrer
Active Member
It is already the case, to some degree. Go look through the Model S forums for some detailed threads discussing actual battery capacity (hint: a 90kWh battery isn't actually 90kWh), and how much capacity is held in reserve.
Though at the top end, Tesla does allow you to get to 100% charge when you really need it; most people charge to 90% on a daily basis. Many getting a 60kWh that is really a 75kWh software locked are taking advantage of this to do a "100%" (of software available) charge daily.
Are the BMW 3Series and 5Series based on the same chassis?
Is the Corolla based on the same platform as the Avallon?
The answer is NO, so what do you want the Tesla 3/Y to eventually use the same platform as the Tesla S/X?
Not using the same platform means not having the same battery architecture (not the same space available), so the only common thing between all the Tesla cars may be the same battery sizes... but may be even not the same manufacturer.
This is Tesla not Toyota or BMW. Tesla don't follow other platform architectures if they did they will be long gone by now. Toyota and BMW do not have mega factories where every single engine for the whole world is produced but Tesla has the giga factory where its very existence and profitability will depend on massive economies of scale, high re-use of parts and and top end efficiency in production.
As to the question why do I want M3 to use MX or S/X platform - I really don't seriously. I would not want bulky and heavy components from X or S to end up in 3 which I am hoping would be the most efficient of the bunch. However, battery re-use makes sense and lots of re-use in that. Giga factory could be churning out millions and millions of identical batteries with no link to which configuration or car it ends up in. I think if Tesla can find a way to minimise the cost of battery fuse upgrade required for PXXD, one battery for all is doable.
In fact I'd go so far as to say when the gigafactory starts to operate at its peak, Tesla may even make their battery available to other manufacturers. When you think of the gigafactory, think of huge steel factories with mega furnaces. Yes the gigafactory will be much more efficient from start to end and Tesla will ensure minimal static running costs but at the end, first principles still hold i.e. they will have to keep the factory operating at peak rate for that business model to make sense.
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alseTrick
Active Member
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Depending upon which versions, yes. The BMW 3-Series, 5-Series, and 7-Series were all essentially the same car, with different wheelbase lengths, for like, ever. Their individual product development may have divulged somewhat over the years, but there's a reason why they all used the same motors for a very long time.
The Toyota Avalon is the latest version of what used to be called the Cressida, and before that, the Corona. Those are basically stretched wheelbase versions of the Camry. Which was a larger version of the Corolla. Much the same progression exists for Honda Accord and Civic.
A lot of traditional automobile manufacturers have made the best use of engineering scale, in a literal sense, over the years. Design it once, scale it up or down for purpose. Use it again, over, and over, and over again. Easy.
cpa
Active Member
Red, in your final sentence from the first paragraph, don't you mean diverged? I cannot think how an inanimate object can divulge something.
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