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Press Conference July 17
- Thread starter dandurston
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I'm expecting the used, returned batteries to go into commercial Powerpacks.
Given that the 60s really don't have enough range for many people, it would make sense to offer an upgrade to them, but I don't think Tesla has ever seriously hinted at doing so.
stevejust
T E S L A x (≡)
I have a different options suggestion. Tesla has a really appalling exterior paint color selection, which has always consisted of white, black, off-white, off-black, different off-black, another different off-black, off-grey, different off-grey, and red. Tesla should just cut back to manufacturing white and black only, and then team up with someone to offer vinyl wraps in any color under the sun as a factory-supplied option on the white cars, which would provide a rainbow of colors at low cost.
Can someone who knows how much longer it takes to vinyl wrap vs. the new bajillion dollar paint shop weigh in on this? This is intriguing.
Krugerrand
Meow
I suspect that Tesla can bring down the cost of the pack trade-in because Tesla now has a larger market for the used packs, so the used packs have more residual value.
People didn't like getting refurbished packs for their cars. Tesla can now convert all the turned-in packs into Powerwalls or Powerpacks; because of the less demanding conditions, I don't think the commercial customers will complain about having 'used' battery cells. And companies seem to be banging down the door to get those stationary batteries as quickly as they possibly can.
The wrap services are all in big cities and I live in the countryside. Having it done before delivery eliminates *driving the car to a big city, leaving it there, and bringing it back*, which is basically the reason I haven't had my car wrapped.
No way. He said "plus installation costs" on the call. At $150/hour of labor and a manual battery swap taking only a few hours I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere close to 5 figures. Maybe $1500. I doubt they want to discourage people from upgrading in the future. They can reuse the existing packs in powerwalls.
I wonder how the lane-keeping will work on a newly paved road with no lane markings except for an occasional splotch to indicate "paint here" to the line-painting trucks.
Humans mostly manage to keep lane position in that situation. Because humans are *much much better* at the pattern-matching than computers.
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Unless you're very fond of a discontinued option, of course.
It won't, it doesn't have to. It's a convenient feature for the driver, not a replacement.
Tripple_T
Cincinnati Member
I agree that at some point an upgrade is not cost effective, but I also believe one of the biggest concerns of the general market is the replacement cost of a battery. Eliminating that concern with a "reasonable" upgrade option would go a long way. How many of you have speculated the cost of a replacement battery? 10k 25k 45k?
I've always answered the question this way:
When the Prius first came out speculation was $8k, but by the time anyone had to purchase one it was $2,500. I expect a similar reduction in the Model S battery.
From some of the interviews, I think it's fairly clear that the cost to Tesla of an 85 kWh battery is somewhere close to $20k. Presumably the 90 kWh is a little bit more.
But in the bigger picture, if they are still battery pack limited then it costs Tesla a sale, and the ~$20k gross profit that they would have made off of a car sale.
On the other hand, they're getting back an 85 kWh pack in good shape - and they've already told us that the 400kWh pallets they use for buffering Superchargers and the Fremont factory are basically made up of 5 85 kWh car packs (in different packaging.)
So if they can build your old pack into a pallet where they would have otherwise used new modules, then the actual cost to Tesla is small - just the delta for the new pack and the labor of breaking your pack apart and converting it.
Walter
JER
Member
Possibly the most important item on Elon’s latest blog post:
The 90kWh pack is offered to (though not recommended for) all existing Model S owners; no price has been announced for this.
This does mean it’s technically possible to have a P85D with Ludicrous Mode, even though you can’t order a new one. (You must order a P90D to get it from new.)
Assuming the labour charge is reasonable, existing P85D owners are going to get a really good deal.
The high current upgrade is what’s required for Ludicrous Mode, and is being offered to existing P85D owners for $5k plus labour.
The 90kWh pack is offered to (though not recommended for) all existing Model S owners; no price has been announced for this.
This does mean it’s technically possible to have a P85D with Ludicrous Mode, even though you can’t order a new one. (You must order a P90D to get it from new.)
Assuming the labour charge is reasonable, existing P85D owners are going to get a really good deal.
For me, the biggest takeaway from today's announcements is that a battery upgrade is possible at a modest cost without having to buy a new battery or a new car. There is now certainty that the drive train and electronics will work for newer batteries. Also, we learned that we can upgrade as batteries are improved. This certainty is important for those of us about to purchase a model X. Having a model X with less range than a model S, with no assurance that the battery could be upgraded, would be difficult. Now we know we can look forward to incremental increases in range with each battery upgrade.
Very soon after the launch of the Model S, Tesla talked about offering a plan for Model S owners to lock in a battery replacement at $10K for a 60 kWh battery and $12K for an 85 kWh (it was so early on they actually had an $8K price for the 40 kWh Model S). I believe this provided for trading in packs 8 or more years old. While the fact that they did not follow through with this plan could be interpreted as a lack of confidence that such prices were realistic, Tesla has recently repeatedly expressed confidence that they will get cell costs to $100/kWh or less by 2020. If that holds up, it seems like they will be able to offer packs at those prices at a decent margin, including allowing for the non-cell costs in making a pack. Factor in the value of a traded in pack and it seems Tesla could boost there margins considerably on such trade-ins, drop the price substantially for the consumer trading in a pack, or some middle ground combination of the two.
They likely have a standard fuse in series with it just in case the electronics totally fail for one reason or another, just likely a fast cut fuse of a much higher rating. Elon said safely pulling 1500A now which is about 520kW or about 700HP.
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Anyone else notice that they changed the P85D/P90D stats to say 503 HP rear and 259 HP front.... that's 762 HP combined...
WRONG! The only reason there is a ludicrous mode is because of new hardware in the 90kWh battery pack - new fuses and space age metal contactor enabling an increase in current draw from 1300 to 1500 amps (plus firmware). That is not part of the P85D pack. That's why on the order page for new cars, the increased range option is required if you want ludicrous mode.
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