Press Conference July 17

[apacheguy]

The only upgrade offered is to enable Ludicrous mode in P85D. This requires a $5,000+Installation upgrade for existing P85D owners only. For this price, you only get the fuse and high-power contactor upgrade, not the range upgrade or a new battery pack. New customers are forced to pick the range upgrade if they want Ludicrous mode, for a total of $13,000. The 90kWh battery pack is not offered as an upgrade and only available for new orders.

That doesn't jive with what everyone else understood from the call. Where do you see that the 90 kWh pack is only available for new orders?

 

[ModelSFL]

That doesn't jive with what everyone else understood from the call. Where do you see that the 90 kWh pack is only available for new orders?

Correct, It's hardware not software

 

[Joel]

Correct, It's hardware not software

Hardware for P85D. Firmware for existing customers to have "the optional 5% increase in range"

 

[tinm]

I still hate the gas savings on the order page changing the headline price.

I'm driving an EV already so there are $0 gas savings for me.

+1000

 

[breser]

Existing 85 kWh Model S owners can pay $3K and have a firmware upgrade release the 5kWh that was previously designated as unusable. Previously, the 85kwh battery was 85 kWh rated and 80 actual.

A current 85 kWh S owner Can pay $3K to use all 85 kWh (minus whatever degraded).

Source for that?

 

[Joel]

Source for that?

Service center and website.

Read the $3,000 upgrade description:

 

[Kalud]

Existing 85 kWh Model S owners can pay $3K and have a firmware upgrade release the 5kWh that was previously designated as unusable. Previously, the 85kwh battery was 85 kWh rated and 80 actual.

A current 85 kWh S owner Can pay $3K to use all 85 kWh (minus whatever degraded).

Unfortunately no, its not that simple. The new 90kWh battery involve a different chemistry, the new anode adds silicon to the graphite. This cannot be done in software, well, not in 2015. Maybe in 20 years.

 

[strangethingintheland]

more clarification is available now:

Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors

 

[breser]

Service center and website.

Read the $3,000 upgrade description:
View attachment 87731

You have to consider the context of that. It's talking about upgrading to 90 kWh battery on the order form. Not cars that have already been made.

I seriously doubt the service center told you that they can software unlock 5 kWh more of the the 85 kWh battery.

 

[TexasEV]

Service center and website.

Read the $3,000 upgrade description:
View attachment 87731

No, you misunderstood. When ordering a car you can pay $3000 more than the 85 kWh price and get a 90 kWh battery-- but it's an entirely different battery with different battery chemistry. Nothing to do with releasing extra capacity in existing battery packs.

 

[breser]

From the blog post now up:

90 kWh Pack
New buyers now have the option of upgrading the pack energy from 85 to 90 kWh for $3k, which provides about 6% increased range. For example, this takes our current longest range model, the 85D, to almost 300 miles of highway range at 65mph.

Existing owners can also purchase the pack upgrade, but I wouldn't recommend doing so unless usage is on the edge of current range. On average, we expect to increase pack capacity by roughly 5% per year. Better to wait until you have more time on your existing pack and there is a larger accumulated pack energy difference.

So they will sell the upgraded pack to existing owners. But they don't say how much. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be $3k and it's not going to be a software thing.

 

[TEG]

more clarification is available now:

Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors

This:

...While working on our goal of making the power train last a million miles, we came up with the idea for an advanced smart fuse for the battery. Instead of a standard fuse that just melts past a certain amperage, requiring a big gap between the normal operating current and max current, we developed a fuse with its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery. It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty...

Makes me ask myself:
#1: Why do you need a fuse in the first place? To cut off the battery pack in the event of some sort of catastrophic failure?
#2: If the fuse is now a "smart bomb" that only detonates when the conditions are right (er., wrong) what happens when that little lithium battery runs down? Does your fuse become inoperable and will never blow at that point? Would you get some dash warning like "Car is now unsafe, please drive to a server center to get your fuse battery replaced!"...?

Not used to the concept of battery powered fuses!

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

From the blog post now up:



So they will sell the upgraded pack to existing owners. But they don't say how much. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be $3k and it's not going to be a software thing.

Yup, think in the 5 figures $ range...

 

[gregincal]

more clarification is available now:

Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors

Exactly:

90 kWh Pack
New buyers now have the option of upgrading the pack energy from 85 to 90 kWh for $3k, which provides about 6% increased range. For example, this takes our current longest range model, the 85D, to almost 300 miles of highway range at 65mph.
Existing owners can also purchase the pack upgrade, but I wouldn't recommend doing so unless usage is on the edge of current range. On average, we expect to increase pack capacity by roughly 5% per year. Better to wait until you have more time on your existing pack and there is a larger accumulated pack energy difference.
Note, new owners can upgrade for 3K. Existing owners can upgrade for some unspecified price, but they don't really recommend it (by which I read that it will be so expensive as to be not worth your while).

 

[ahurst]

I've read the range gain is 5%, or 6%, or 7% in various Tesla approved published materials....which is it?

 

[dsm363]

Existing 85 kWh Model S owners can pay $3K and have a firmware upgrade release the 5kWh that was previously designated as unusable. Previously, the 85kwh battery was 85 kWh rated and 80 actual.

A current 85 kWh S owner Can pay $3K to use all 85 kWh (minus whatever degraded).

You've confirmed this?

I see. Answered above.

 

[omarsultan]

Existing 85 kWh Model S owners can pay $3K and have a firmware upgrade release the 5kWh that was previously designated as unusable. Previously, the 85kwh battery was 85 kWh rated and 80 actual.

A current 85 kWh S owner Can pay $3K to use all 85 kWh (minus whatever degraded).

Followed a live stream of the call--that is 100% incorrect. The $3K upgrade is for new buyers of 85kWh models. Having learned a lesson from the past, current owners of P85Ds have six months to get the electronics upgrade, which along with the larger pack gives them the equivalent of the Ludicrous upgrade. Both upgrades are hardware-based upgrades.

Elon did say the battery upgrade would be available to any owner of an 85kWh model, but did not provide any details on cost or availability.

 

[breser]

I've read the range gain is 5%, or 6%, or 7% in various Tesla approved published materials....which is it?

Whichever number gets you to buy the car today. You'll find out the real number when the EPA says they can tell you. :wink:

 

[brianman]

Followed a live stream of the call--that is 100% incorrect. The $3K upgrade is for new buyers of 85kWh models. Having learned a lesson from the past, current owners of P85Ds have six months to get the upgrade to a P90D, which would then set up them up to pay another $10K for the Ludicrous upgrade. Both upgrades are hardware-based upgrades.

Elon did say the battery upgrade would be available to any owner of an 85kWh model, but did not provide any details on cost or availability.

Your phrasing is in conflict with Elon's blog post. Compare the underlines.

Three Dog Day | Tesla Motors

In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the pack electronics upgrade needed for Ludicrous Mode will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor.

It is important to note that the battery pack size upgrade and the pack electronics upgrade are almost entirely independent. The first is about energy, which affects range, and the second is about power, which affects acceleration.

 

[neroden]

Three battery sizes. Rear wheel or all wheel drive. Performance version or regular. Ludicrous or not if you get the P. And that's before you get to any of the actual options. Isn't this too much choice?

Well, the battery sizes are not confusing at all. Rear wheel vs. all wheel is straightforward.

I think the P and options beyond P are strictly intended for gearheads, who won't be bothered by the number of options, and for the sort who just say "I want it fully loaded", who also aren't bothered.

I count six other major options. Plus paint color, sunroof, and interior color & style. This *is* too many. I expect some of them to go away.

Unfortunately Tesla is likely to make the 'next generation seats' standard, which sucks, because I don't like them as much as the original seats. However, in the long run Tesla will probably introduce a seat with an adjustable headrest which will replace both types of seat.

Tesla appears to have gotten rid of the non-Alcantara headliner, which sucks because Alcantara sucks. Worse, the Model S is an extremely difficult car to replace the headliner on, due to the obnoxious non-standard attachment style (I wish they'd change this.)

The power liftgate, fog lights, and cornering lights should be standard. So should the subzero package (why do those of us in the snowbelt always pay extra?). I fully expect the autopilot to become standard at some point. The sound system upgrade has gotten mediocre reviews, and perhaps should be replaced with an improved base sound system.

I have a different options suggestion. Tesla has a really appalling exterior paint color selection, which has always consisted of white, black, off-white, off-black, different off-black, another different off-black, off-grey, different off-grey, and red. Tesla should just cut back to manufacturing white and black only, and then team up with someone to offer vinyl wraps in any color under the sun as a factory-supplied option on the white cars, which would provide a rainbow of colors at low cost.

ANYway, I think Tesla's handling the battery stuff pretty well now, and the upgrade offer ("buy now get a good deal") seems an appropriate way to deal with the sort of complaints which Tesla would have gotten in the past.

- - - Updated - - -

Meanwhile, on Tesla's Twitter feed...

~ 1hr ago: Model S now fastest accelerating car on the road. (Now deleted.)
1/4 hr ago: Model S now fastest accelerating Model S on the road. (What? Also, deleted.)

I totally believe that one.

Now: Model S now fastest accelerating sedan on the road.

Third time's the charm?

- - - Updated - - -

Lithium sulfur, Li-S, is a fundamentally more promising chemistry, it should be possible to create cells with much higher specific energy(gravimetric density) compared to li-ion with si anodes. And it could be much cheaper too, no need for expensive cobalt and nickel. But apparently Li-S is not ready for mass production yet. Anyhow, it will become available eventually.

If it could be made to work, sulfur is VERY cheap. There are literally mountains of it which were removed from oil during refining. That would cut costs a lot, at least until the backlog was used up.