Problem: My P3D is getting more valuable as time goes on!

[Knightshade]

But it sounds like he also has an option that if his loan exceeds fair market value (under water), the loan will be paid off in full. So in those two cases there wouldn't be any negotiating.

Some folks avoid that by instead giving whoever issued the loan a couple hundred bucks for gap insurance (which means they pay whatever the difference is between the loan and the insurance payout on the total)

I'd personally never have a car loan that's underwater at any time though.

Depends on the loan.

Many folks were getting car loans a year or two ago at 1-2%...which is at or below inflation.

Makes no sense to pay cash in todays money when you can pay the same or less with tomorrows cheaper money- regardless of what happens depreciation-wise.

 

[Dan123]

Some companies offer Full MSRP (or price paid) for up to 2 years (like Geico) if you buy that extra option. I think 1 year is standard 2 years is optional. It sounds like he got FSD included in that (price paid figure). But it sounds like he also has an option that if his loan exceeds fair market value (under water), the loan will be paid off in full. So in those two cases there wouldn't be any negotiating.

I'd personally never have a car loan that's underwater at any time though.

If the loan exceeds his FMV, then he is effectively getting more than the FMV of the car, so he is getting paid for the FSD and connectivity.

If he has an option to get back the full MSRP, then I also don't see how he is wronged. Tesla now doesn't offer cars that include those features? Well, that's tough. How is it different from buying a car, and a dealer throwing in free oil changes for 2 years, and next time buying it without any such promotion. The fact that you got the dealer to give you a deal last time, doesn't change the fair market value of the car.

 

[mswlogo]

If the loan exceeds his FMV, then he is effectively getting more than the FMV of the car, so he is getting paid for the FSD and connectivity.

If he has an option to get back the full MSRP, then I also don't see how he is wronged. Tesla now doesn't offer cars that include those features? Well, that's tough. How is it different from buying a car, and a dealer throwing in free oil changes for 2 years, and next time buying it without any such promotion. The fact that you got the dealer to give you a deal last time, doesn't change the fair market value of the car.

Yes, he could do well if he has an underwater loan and totals it. Not something I usually strive for
I think you mean free super charging and connectivity.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

If your car is totaled, aren't they supposed to pay to the fair market value of your car? How does one determine the fair market value of a car? Isn't there always disagreement about the value?

basically: how much it would cost for you to buy a comparable (year / miles / features) model to replace the totaled one. they can't say "$30k" when the cheapest comparable used Tesla in your region sells for $45k ... but they also won't give you list price for a 1yr old vehicle with 15k miles on it either...

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Yes, he could do well if he has an underwater loan and totals it. Not something I usually strive for
I think you mean free super charging and connectivity.

if you owe $40k on the car loan and the FMV is $35k ... you still owe the remaining ($5k) to whomever you financed with. they do NOT care that you totaled the car...

 

[Knightshade]

if you owe $40k on the car loan and the FMV is $35k ... you still owe the remaining ($5k) to whomever you financed with. they do NOT care that you totaled the car...

Which is exactly why both the loan people and the insurance people may offer to sell you some type of gap coverage to pay that difference.

 

[Dan123]

basically: how much it would cost for you to buy a comparable (year / miles / features) model to replace the totaled one. they can't say "$30k" when the cheapest comparable used Tesla in your region sells for $45k ... but they also won't give you list price for a 1yr old vehicle with 15k miles on it either...

So a used bar with free supercharging and connectivity should be more valuable than a used car without them? Right?

 

[mswlogo]

if you owe $40k on the car loan and the FMV is $35k ... you still owe the remaining ($5k) to whomever you financed with. they do NOT care that you totaled the car...

By the sounds of it the OP has Gap insurance that would cover the difference.

 

[mswlogo]

So a used bar with free supercharging and connectivity should be more valuable than a used car without them? Right?

free supercharging is not transferable. So FMV would reflect as not having it.
Not sure on connectivity.

 

[Knightshade]

free supercharging is not transferable. So FMV would reflect as not having it.
Not sure on connectivity.

connectivity goes with the car

All cars ordered on or before June 30, 2018 receive Premium Connectivity automatically for the lifetime of the car.

NOTE- they only guarantee you get "existing" premium features in this deal.

It explicitly states that as NEW connectivity features are added you might need to upgrade to a paid plan to get them even if you have the "free lifetime" from a pre-June-30 purchase.

 

[Garlan Garner]

If your car is totaled, aren't they supposed to pay to the fair market value of your car? How does one determine the fair market value of a car? Isn't there always disagreement about the value?

Actually I don't care about the fair market value.

Look....I get my car fully replaced if my car is totaled - and If I don't get another one....they pay me the difference in the value of my car and the remaining loan amount.

That's their policy.

I won't be out of any money if my car gets totaled. That's the bottom line.


Now....If I get another P3D...I want my free features back....or their equivalent value. <------ that's the delima.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Some companies offer Full MSRP (or price paid) for up to 2 years (like Geico) if you buy that extra option. I think 1 year is standard 2 years is optional. It sounds like he got FSD included in that (price paid figure). But it sounds like he also has an option that if his loan exceeds fair market value (under water), the loan will be paid off in full. So in those two cases there wouldn't be any negotiating.

I'd personally never have a car loan that's underwater at any time though.

I changed from Geico to Allstate because Geico TOLD ME that they wouldn't pay me the Full MSRP because I put some upgrades on my car ( non OEM wheels ).

I left.

 

[Krazaak]

New car replacement and gap insurance aren't exactly the same thing. Gap means that your loan is paid off in the event that the car's value if totaled is less than your outstanding loan balance. New car replacement means you get a new car of the same make and model, but it's only available for the first few years of ownership and with some policies is replaced by gap insurance after that period.

If you've financed more than 90% of your car's price without gap insurance or new car replacement, you're taking a huge risk that you may be left with a loan balance and no car in the event of a total loss. Even with new car replacement, if you've financed a high percentage of the car's value over a 5 or 6 year term, you could still be upside down in your loan once the new car replacement period drops off.

If you can't assign a value to something, then it can't really be insured. New car replacement can't replace a feature that's no longer available on a new model. For instance, replacement of my P100D with active spoiler with a new Model X Long Range Performance wouldn't get me any compensation for the spoiler that's been discontinued.

Similarly, FUSC and Lifetime Premium Connectivity aren't available now, so they can't be replaced regardless of implied value.

In theory, you could assign a value to both and find somebody who'd sell you a policy that provides a cash payout in the event your car is totaled or insure the car as a collectible as mentioned above. In either event, the policy is likely to be expensive if you can even get anyone to provide it.

For what it's worth, new car replacement through Allstate is only available until the car is 2 years old.

 

[mswlogo]

New car replacement and gap insurance aren't exactly the same thing.

Nobody said it was. Nor that new car replacement is unlimited time.

Good summary though.

BTW, Subject says OP's car is getting more valuable. Really.
Didn't OP have Free Supercharging and Free Connectively since he bought it? Or is he drinking Elon Koolaide?

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I changed from Geico to Allstate because Geico TOLD ME that they wouldn't pay me the Full MSRP because I put some upgrades on my car ( non OEM wheels ).

I left.

i would read the fine-print of you policy again. I have *yet* to hear of ANY insurer which pays full MSRP for a totaled car more which is older than 1-2 yrs. it simply doesnt work that way with depreciation / FMV / replacement value etc. If you total your 4yr old car you would make a big profit if you get full msrp and the loan is already nearly paid off. bottom line profit and zero depreciation. lol

 

[Knightshade]

Now....If I get another P3D...I want my free features back....or their equivalent value. <------ that's the delima.

Not really.

You can't get those features anymore.

And you can't find a fixed value to assign them.

So your choices are either:

1) Tough.

or

2) You get an explicit additional insurance policy (or rider on existing one) with a specific stated value the insurance company will pay you for losing those things- and you pay more each month (or 6 months or year or whatever) for that extra coverage.


Your current policy won't give you anything for those features- they were service promos to buy by a certain date, not an extra thing you paid money for as part of the price of the car (and that adds resale value to it) like FSD.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

For what it's worth, new car replacement through Allstate is only available until the car is 2 years old.

bingo. that makes sense. so the OP should read that.

 

[mswlogo]

i would read the fine-print of you policy again. I have *yet* to hear of ANY insurer which pays full MSRP for a totaled car more which is older than 1-2 yrs. it simply doesnt work that way with depreciation / FMV / replacement value etc. If you total your 4yr old car you would make a big profit if you get full msrp and the loan is already nearly paid off. bottom line profit and zero depreciation. lol

I wonder what OP is paying?

I agree 2 years max on MSRP. I assume OP knows that.
But he has his whopping loan that will decrease slower than devaluation, I guess.

 

[Fredneck]

What do you think the value of Free Unlimited Supercharging is?

I've already posted those calculations. I Supercharge pretty much every mile. I keep my cars until they turn to rust. So do the math of the expected lifetime of the car. 250,000 mi minimum / 3 mi/kWh to get the lifetime kWh, then multiply by the cost of Supercharging which mostly is 28 cents per. So around $25,000 without pulling out the calculator.

 

[Fredneck]

Negotiation?

What is always a negotiation?

Allstate has a policy. That's why I chose them - so that nothing will be a negotiation. I don't have an arbitrary policy. I have a static policy.

Neither myself or Allstate disagree on what my policy covers.

My primary concern as far as insurance is concerned is that they cover my FULL loan - no matter what the car is worth.

My secondary concern is that they won't/can't cover things that don't have a pre-defined value.

No one here has been able to place a value on Free Unlimited Supercharging or Free Connectivity for life.

Of course your policy is negotiated. Nothing is crystal clear. Everything is interpreted. Mostly the value of a car is negotiated. There are many companies that value autos and they all have different prices. How can there only be one number for the value of a car???

If you worry about paying off your loan rather than giving you the value of your car you don't seem to understand the losses involved when a car is totaled.