Prospective owner with quality control question

[jkoya]

How does Consumer Reports get their data - is it a survey of their subscribers or some other method ?

 

[dhrivnak]

I was preparing to buy a Model 3 and had a 240v outlet installed in my garage this week. (I was having other electrical work done and figured I would take care of the outlet while I had the electrician’s attention.) Two days later, Consumer Reports came out with their release about pulling their recommendation because of reliability issues, notwithstanding that their March issue says that Model 3 owners are the most satisfied owners out there. I know their decision was supposedly based on an old (September) survey and that Tesla says they have fixed most problems. I am understandably a bit antsy, though.

My question is this: Is there any anecdotal or other evidence that the Model 3 quality control at the factory has improved since the survey or are people so happy with the car’s look and performance that they are willing to forgive a trip or two with a new car to the service center to iron out the kinks?

Thanks!

With over 18,000 miles I am very pleased with my Model 3. I did have two issues, a problem updating the firmware and the glove box popping open. Both were QUICKLY solved. With the update issue the gave me a Model S when they picked up my car. The second was a Ranger visit to my house. No drama and I was not inconvenienced. And I do have an early VIN 72xx car of which at least the glove box issue has been corrected

 

[dhrivnak]

How does Consumer Reports get their data - is it a survey of their subscribers or some other method ?

From subscribers in an annual survey.

 

[SalisburySam]

I live in Scottsdale, with two Tesla showrooms, a service center, and a huge number of Teslas of all models on the local roads, so I am hoping the customer service here is up to the task. .

Suggestion: given your location, do you have a friend/acquaintance who has one that you can see, touch, drive, and discuss? If so, actually interacting with the vehicle is a great way to allay fears.

Suggestion: given two showrooms, go into one and see, touch, drive, and discuss the actual vehicle and their service department. Actually interacting with the vehicle is a great way to allay fears.

Testimonial: I got my Model 3 last July, VIN 33xxx. To date, I’ve had no, none, nada, issues requiring service. I did take the vehicle to the service center for my 6250-mile tire rotation, but that’s normal maintenance, not a defect. And the rotation was at no charge to me.

 

[Sanny]

Slightly off topic, but recently I was searching for a microwave. Literally, every model with the highest Consumer Reports recommendation has an average customer review of around 2.5 stars on the very same CR website. Quite funny to read praises from CR staff and tons of 1-star reviews from real users on the same page. Who cares about CR in the 21 century any more?

 

[SalisburySam]

Slightly off topic, but recently I was searching for a microwave. Literally, every model with the highest Consumer Reports recommendation has an average customer review of around 2.5 stars on the very same CR website. Quite funny to read praises from CR staff and tons of 1-star reviews from real users on the same page. Who cares about CR in the 21 century any more?

Sanny, I find it odd that CR itself doesn’t notice this dichotomy and realistically consider why. In general, their testing methodologies usually sound valid, but apparently are not representative of what the public, and CR’s own readership, feels. Similarly, a comparison of CR recommendations against Amazon reviews are also inconsistent, sometimes wildly so. Relevance is a fickle thing and a methodology almost fails by definition if it proves irrelevant.

 

[Az_Rael]

Man, I'm really trying to wrap my head around this one. How exactly could you love the least reliable car you've ever owned, more than any other car you've ever owned?

What exactly is your criteria for what makes a car good? Isn't being reliable one of the things we expect most of our transport? Or is that just me?

If I was married to a supermodel who was great in bed but randomly kicked me in the balls twice a week, eventually I'd tire of it.

Eh, reliability isn’t the top of everyone’s list or no one would ever buy Jeeps. And Jeep owners love their cars too. And it’s not like my car is being towed to the shop once a week, no one would put up with that. My 3 has been to the service center 4 times this last year for various issues and had one mobile service visit. Our S has a lot more issues, so it has seen the service center and mobile technicians more. Most of the issues don’t leave you stranded, but they do require more TLC time at the shop than the other cars we have owned.

23K miles in on my 3 and 35K miles on our S and we are not tired of it yet - it still puts a grin on my face every day.

 

[Zcd1]

Thanks for the responses. I thought it very strange that CR would cite reliability to pull their recommendation while highlighting the extreme owner satisfaction. I have an Audi S5 now, which sets a pretty high bar on fit and finish, but if Tesla is willing and able to make things right, that would go a long way for my comfort level...Keep those responses coming, please!...I want to know that apart from the possibility of some punchlist items when I go to pick up the vehicle, or a rejection in the rare case of a major flaw, I can get right to enjoying a very unique and exciting car.

I'd driven Audis for almost 20 years before buying my Model 3 Performance, and they were all good cars, but I enjoy the Tesla far more than any of them (last 2 were a tuned/lowered B8 S4 and a tuned C7 S6).

I had zero issues upon delivery, and have no issues now.

CR's reliability methodology is seriously flawed, because they don't distinguish between problems that would keep the car off the road (of which there are basically none for the Model 3) and annoyances, such as a software glitch. Not every problem should be given equal weight, IMHO.

All of that said, the only things that prevent me from rating my Model 3 a perfect 10 are the ride quality and interior noise level at freeway speeds on textured pavement. Neither of those characteristics is quite at the Audis' level of refinement.

One question you should consider: Will you be happy with the Bauhaus minimalism of the Model 3's interior design? I find it refreshing, but it's SO different from Audi's concepts in that area that it might give some pause.

Bottom line: I'd buy my car again in a heartbeat, and can't see going back to any ICE vehicle, ever. Good luck with your decision!

 

[seattlite2004]

Few more anecdotes can be found here: Tesla Model 3 Loses CR Recommendation Over Reliability Issues. Owners report problems with paint, trim, and electronics in Consumer Reports' survey : teslamotors

 

[heems]

Since picking up my P3 last September I have had zero interaction with Tesla. No reason to. Car is perfect and puts a massive smile on my face each and every time I drive it. This is THE best car I have owned.

Everyone knows Tesla is under a constant microscope. I take all the “news” on Tesla with a grain of salt. Lots of hidden agendas. You need to make your own bet so to speak amongst all the noise.

Having said all this one thing no one talks about is your own attitude. Are you an anal person? Are you ocd? The truth is your outlook is going to be the main determinant of your experience imho. I am an easy going guy. If I clicked the charger button once and the door didn’t open my next actions are not 1) call Tesla or 2) post online. I simply work around it (and open charger door from inside car). At most I make a mental note to talk to Tesla during my next service visit - in 2 years.

Hope you do get to enjoy the ownership experience as most of us have.

 

[mattjs33]

Who cares about CR in the 21 century any more?

^^ This. Their articles read as if written by people who know nothing about cars, really.

Eh, reliability isn’t the top of everyone’s list or no one would ever buy Jeeps. And Jeep owners love their cars too. And it’s not like my car is being towed to the shop once a week, no one would put up with that. My 3 has been to the service center 4 times this last year for various issues and had one mobile service visit. Our S has a lot more issues, so it has seen the service center and mobile technicians more. Most of the issues don’t leave you stranded, but they do require more TLC time at the shop than the other cars we have owned.

Not telling you how to feel, but for a brand new car, that's a lot of service. My Jaguar has been in the shop only once in three years (besides oil changes) and it's 13 years old. And a Jaguar.

I do understand loving a vehicle despite its flaws, however. I also have a Yugo in the garage (this is true). It has a certain charm. But for a daily, reliability has to be at the top of the list or you're missing the point.

 

[electrichapp]

Consumer Reports headlined Model 3 because they know it will generate buzz.
I am waiting for the SR and not concerned about model3's reliability considering how fast Tesla makes improvements in their parts and processes.

 

[RFernatt]

One minor paint issue on the edge of a mirror cap, but otherwise my Oct car has been perfect. My Leaf had two recalls and a TSB that required overnight stays at the dealership, so the 3 is ahead of the Leaf in time spent at the dealership. A mobile service tech is stopping by my house this week to put the Dual Motor badge on, so I still won't have visited the service center (knock on wood).

 

[mikefocke]

I decided not to buy a Tesla at this time despite wanting one and having the money.

Why you ask. Because of service stories.

I currently drive a Toyota Prius. 53k miles and 2 problems. One a flash at the next dealer visit fixed the slow nav issue. The other problem occurred 4 times. Stranding me three times. But my dealer is 2 miles away, gives me a ride back to my house and will pick me up, and engaged the zone and national service folks in the diagnosis. Since the problem was so rare there was no mention other than mine on the internet (and believe me I looked) this interaction showed me the beauty of available upper level help and quick availability of rarely needed parts.

When Tesla service get to that level, I'm a buyer. But as service is 50 miles away, and parts seemingly not in stock regionally, I'll wait.

 

[Zcd1]

I decided not to buy a Tesla at this time despite wanting one and having the money....Why you ask. Because of service stories...When Tesla service get to that level, I'm a buyer. But as service is 50 miles away, and parts seemingly not in stock regionally, I'll wait.

Suit yourself - your loss.

You do understand that Tesla will send a flatbed to bring your car in for service if it's not driveable, right? Would Toyota do that?

That said, it's your money, and you absolutely should be comfortable spending it. Enjoy (?) your Prius.

 

[SMAlset]

I think everything in life has flaws. If you don't expect absolute perfection, then you won’t be disappointed and can enjoy life. Some people are more adaptable than others. Depending on the issue, I can see someone not feeling like a trip in to get an issue fixed or having to wait for some software update as taking away from feeling like the car is still the best they’ve owned.

 

[Zaxxon]

I've had my 3 since May. VIN 224xx, approaching 15k miles. The only issues I've had were a slight discoloration on the interior A-pillar trim, likely from someone with dirty hands touching it pre-delivery, and a charge port door mechanism issue (didn't prevent me from charging; just stuck a bit on open/close). Tesla quickly addressed both issues and it's been flawless since.

As for CR, this particular recommendation withdrawal perplexes me. I'm sure they have their methodology, but both their general survey results (see below) and their consumer satisfaction results (the 3 brings its owners the most satisfaction of any car) suggest to me they they should be recommending it. Also, the data on which this withdrawal is based is not current.

I love my 3 more than any other car I've owned, and it's not a close call. There's always a chance that you'll have a bad experience, but by and large I think the car is well worth that risk.

 

[Az_Rael]

But for a daily, reliability has to be at the top of the list or you're missing the point.

Nah, as a daily, safety is at the absolute top of my list. Followed by comfort and driving enjoyment. I spend 2 hours every day in my car, I want to enjoy that time. Third is efficiency and fuel cost as I drive over 20k miles a year. Then reliability.

 

[mattjs33]

Nah, as a daily, safety is at the absolute top of my list. Followed by comfort and driving enjoyment. I spend 2 hours every day in my car, I want to enjoy that time. Third is efficiency and fuel cost as I drive over 20k miles a year. Then reliability.

Sounds to me like your reliance on your car, based on your usage patterns, would put reliability at the top, just out of necessity. If it strands you or is otherwise unusable for a time (the service center has it), then safety, comfort and the rest are moot.

As long as you're happy.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Sounds to me like your reliance on your car, based on your usage patterns, would put reliability at the top, just out of necessity. If it strands you or is otherwise unusable for a time (the service center has it), then safety, comfort and the rest are moot.

As long as you're happy.

Stranding could be a concern, but Tesla gives you a loaner...even if only required for a few hours. Not much of a concern, really.