Purchasing Plaid MS soon, do I need aftermarket camber arms etc.?

[Workmailman]

Like the title, do I need new camber arms? I'm thinking about pulling the trigger one the new Plaid 23' with these new prices. What should I keep in mind/ do you guys still think it's a good vehicle despite all these things about negative camber, shudder, and vibration? I plan to use this car as my daily driver, thoughts!

 

[Sam1]

A quick peek at alignments will confirm this. Yes, camber contributes but toe is the real killer. We can reduce camber and reduce toe. Ideally we'd correct both. It just depends how much people want to spend.

not a single person so far that has had a proper alignment (not performed at Tesla) is having an issue. That alone says everything anyone needs to know.

the tesla "within spec" alignment is about as "within spec" of panel gaps and wood screws with hose clamps and home depot parts to hold on AC condensers.

 

[Sam1]

Show pictures of the inside shoulder scrubbing? I’ve yet to see that. And that doesn’t explain why this doesn’t happen to a single other wheel or tire combo

It's literally on every single photo of excess wear. that thin band of wear on the inside shoulder is scrubbing from toe out. not sure how to prove it to you if you don't know what the concept means.

 

[ngng]

It's literally on every single photo of excess wear. that thin band of wear on the inside shoulder is scrubbing from toe out. not sure how to prove it to you if you don't know what the concept means.

100%! Here's a photo off my X. The wear is on the outside edge because I flipped the tire and remounted it.

 

[terranx]

It's literally on every single photo of excess wear. that thin band of wear on the inside shoulder is scrubbing from toe out. not sure how to prove it to you if you don't know what the concept means.

The inside edge of the PS4s tends to look worn from the factory in my experience. And it’s hard to judge an already failed tire since there will be excess damage after the sidewall has already separated.

Again, why does this not show up on any other wheel/tire combo?

 

[NeuroRad]

Why is not every model s impacted? Is the suspension tolerance from the factory that out of whack?

 

[Sam1]

The inside edge of the PS4s tends to look worn from the factory in my experience. And it’s hard to judge an already failed tire since there will be excess damage after the sidewall has already separated.

Again, why does this not show up on any other wheel/tire combo?

it does show up on others. the same thing happens on the lucid with pirelli and the same thing happens on the model x with the 22" pirelli. photos have been posted showing this multiple times.

 

[Sam1]

Why is not every model s impacted? Is the suspension tolerance from the factory that out of whack?

yes the alignment is bad from the factory on some, not all cars. a lot of us avoid tesla service centers to even do an alignment...they don't try to get it perfect, they just put it within the scope of tolerance in the manual and if it's 0.1 degree within, even if there's a 0.9 degree variation between sides (just using random numbers), they think it's ok and almost none of them will give you a printout of the settings. They're not going to waste time and make sure it's good, only that it's 'within spec'.

and, the service center will not align the car in the low setting, they do medium only, so as soon as you automatically go into low, your camber is different and your toe is different.

go to a local performance shop and get an alignment from someone who will spend the time to do it. the first alignment I had done, the shop shifted the front subframe over to get the camber even on both sides since I didn't have adjustable arms in the front.

 

[terranx]

it does show up on others. the same thing happens on the lucid with pirelli and the same thing happens on the model x with the 22" pirelli. photos have been posted showing this multiple times.

I’m not asking about different cars. I’m asking about the model S refresh. All the failures are 21” PS4S equipped cars

 

[NeuroRad]

yes the alignment is bad from the factory on some, not all cars. a lot of us avoid tesla service centers to even do an alignment...they don't try to get it perfect, they just put it within the scope of tolerance in the manual and if it's 0.1 degree within, even if there's a 0.9 degree variation between sides (just using random numbers), they think it's ok and almost none of them will give you a printout of the settings. They're not going to waste time and make sure it's good, only that it's 'within spec'.

and, the service center will not align the car in the low setting, they do medium only, so as soon as you automatically go into low, your camber is different and your toe is different.

go to a local performance shop and get an alignment from someone who will spend the time to do it. the first alignment I had done, the shop shifted the front subframe over to get the camber even on both sides since I didn't have adjustable arms in the front.

My next car will NOT be a Tesla i can say that with 100% certainty. Not saying i won’t buy one again but I’m not the type of customer they’re after. Many of us expect a level of attention to detail and service that Tesla simply isn’t willing to provide.

 

[bhzmark]

I’ve had 3 Model Ss (two with old nose cone, one plaid) and model x (plaid) in the household, all with 19” (20” for x), never waste my time rotating tires, with an assortment of summer, AS, and winter tires, all for over 250k miles, and never had a problem with abnormal tire wear. I’ve had a number of alignments at Tesla SCs and they always give me the print out.

While it shouldn’t make a difference, it seems all the complaints come from the larger wheel sizes.

 

[Sam1]

My next car will NOT be a Tesla i can say that with 100% certainty. Not saying i won’t buy one again but I’m not the type of customer they’re after. Many of us expect a level of attention to detail and service that Tesla simply isn’t willing to provide.

Yeah, not many people expect white glove treatment like on some of the Porsche products, but six figure cars shouldn't need aftermarket adjustments to make them function correctly.

 

[Sam1]

I’m not asking about different cars. I’m asking about the model S refresh. All the failures are 21” PS4S equipped cars

The model X and S are almost identical for purposes of this discussion. It happens on the 22" X pirellis, but not the 20" X tires because of the taller sidewall. Just like the 21" and 19" on the S.

If it was an issue with the tires, the hundreds of people with aftermarket solutions installed would still be having issues, but it's been a year now, and not a single one of us are having issues, even though we were prior to the changes.

 

[terranx]

The model X and S are almost identical for purposes of this discussion. It happens on the 22" X pirellis, but not the 20" X tires because of the taller sidewall. Just like the 21" and 19" on the S.

If it was an issue with the tires, the hundreds of people with aftermarket solutions installed would still be having issues, but it's been a year now, and not a single one of us are having issues, even though we were prior to the changes.

Or bad tires have an issue that can be masked with a less aggressive alignment. A camber and tie that are within the factory limits should not be able to cause a catastrophic tire failure. And if toe is the problem, that should manifest on all wheel and tire combos as excessive wear. The fact that the other combos wear completely normal suggest there is something else at play.

 

[Sam1]

Or bad tires have an issue that can be masked with a less aggressive alignment. A camber and tie that are within the factory limits should not be able to cause a catastrophic tire failure. And if toe is the problem, that should manifest on all wheel and tire combos as excessive wear. The fact that the other combos wear completely normal suggest there is something else at play.

No one has the issues with smaller wheel diameters because the taller sidewall provides a larger buffer.

All you have to do is show me a single instance of someone here who has had camber arms or shims installed, and had a proper alignment that has the issue. That's it, I'm not asking for multiple examples, I just want one.

For some reason there's a fetish with wanting to blame Michelin when it fact it's simply a poor alignment setting from the factory.