rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
As one of the patrolmen of the EV Language Police, I can assure you that you will not be cited for such a description.
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Pure BEV Dogma
- Thread starter bonnie
- Start date
As one of the patrolmen of the EV Language Police, I can assure you that you will not be cited for such a description.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Sure, and the Volt has all that as well. Hence its more complicated than an actual EV and it's more complicated than an ICE.
I do call it a plug in hybrid or PHEV, I have no problem with others doing the same.
Yes, it is, it's also like saying a "Porsche is an ICE like the Nissan Versa." I don't expect either statement would cause much confusion.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
In a colloquial context, I call the Volt a plug-in hybrid. This is the most general, least confusing term. I'm even okay with using EREV when I know the audience knows what it means. I do agree that calling it a "hybrid" in colloquial context with no modifier is misleading as that usually refers to hybrids without plugs.
This has been discussed to no end, but in a purely technical sense, you can call the Volt an "EV" if you mean "electrically-driven vehicle". But under that definition the Prius is also an "EV" (as are hydrogen FCVs). In colloquial conversation, almost no one means "electrically-drive vehicle" when they say "EV". They mean electric car when they say "EV". This is where the confusion comes in.
This has been discussed to no end, but in a purely technical sense, you can call the Volt an "EV" if you mean "electrically-driven vehicle". But under that definition the Prius is also an "EV" (as are hydrogen FCVs). In colloquial conversation, almost no one means "electrically-drive vehicle" when they say "EV". They mean electric car when they say "EV". This is where the confusion comes in.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Jay Leno and GM designer calling the ELR a hybrid. The GM guy tries to push the EREV but eventually succumbs and calls it a hybrid.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/18/2014-cadillac-elr-whirs-into-jay-lenos-garage/
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/18/2014-cadillac-elr-whirs-into-jay-lenos-garage/
Calling it a PHEV with a 40 mile electric range is what I would do. Technically it does run in EV mode most of the time but unless if always operates in EV mode, I don't think it's an insult to Volt owners describing it not as a BEV. The Volt is a good car and the fact that people can and are proud of the fact they use little to no gas is great and should be encouraged. I really don't see what the fuss is all about though. It's really just a name but calling a car with a gas engine (even if it runs like an EV 95+% of the time) leads to confusion in the public.
Remember volt comes with ICE as default but i3 has two versions pure EV and option RXE version (which cost $3k more)
i3 EV only version can go on battery for 80 -125 miles. i3 interior is too good compare to volt.
Volt battery is small and goes up to 35 to 40 miles after that ICE car.
Now if you compare to i3 with RXE to volt it might make some sense because i3 cost way more compare to volt etc.
i3 EV only version can go on battery for 80 -125 miles. i3 interior is too good compare to volt.
Volt battery is small and goes up to 35 to 40 miles after that ICE car.
Now if you compare to i3 with RXE to volt it might make some sense because i3 cost way more compare to volt etc.
I like the term they used in the article for comparing them: Significantly electrified car.
... if it sells well (i.e. volume that matters). Otherwise, "insignificantly" definitely applies.
gnelson
Member
I have already stipulated that the Volt has an ICE and called it a plug in vehicle or a significantly electrified car. Regardless the i3 with or without an ICE is more competitive with a Volt or a Leaf in terms of pricing and driving economy. Most buyers aren't so pedantic that they will quibble over whether the ICE is standard or optional. I suspect my operating expenses to date with the Volt would be very comparable to an i3 if driven the same miles. In any event the Volt is much more pleasant looking. Why does the ICE in the Volt bother you so much if it is seldom used? The real issue in the thread is a fact that the i3 couldn't in somebody's remote fantasy compete with a Tesla.
I also take pride in the fact that I own 2 cars that are propelled by electricity and I rarely use gasoline. I am considerably more proud of the Tesla but it cost 3 times what the Volt did. Do you own an EV? Are you going to buy or lease an i3?
+1 - We own a Model S and a Volt and I hate when people are saying the Volt is an hybrid. No, it's an EV with a range extender (that we almost NEVER use).
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gnelson
Member
I agree, but it seems more people hate the Volt and don't want us to say it is an EV. I would not have even considered the Tesla except I am enthralled by driving the Volt in EV mode.
Obviously if I am buying EV I don't want any ICE (if that's bother you don't compare anything with ICE to EV.. if that make sense). Even if you don't use ICE of Volt you will end up doing ICE level maintenance in future but I am not interested in picking you or any volt owner... it's like you bought it and you will take care of it.
i3 is not even release in US, so nobody knows about performance and driving experience, so giving any false explanation make no sense to me.
To me or anyone considering EV 2014 looks pretty good year because you can drive and compare many EVs i3 , spark EV, smart two ($10k car with $88 battery rental per month etc) & many more coming...
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I think you're misinterpreting and we've been through this discussion before.
Don't assume (A) because of (B). I agree with (B) but not with (A), and greatly appreciate (C).
Well, it has two different motors/engines which runs on two different types of fuels. It's the very definition of a hybrid actually.
What if someone got a Volt as a company car and NEVER charged it, would you still call it an EV?
Norbert
TSLA will win
The Volt is different than the Prius, but that doesn't mean it is not a hybrid. It is actually *more* hybrid than the Prius.
gnelson
Member
You are certainly correct. It is also more electric than a Prius. The problem with the hybrid classification is many think of hybrids as ICE cars assisted by an electric motor whereas the Volt is an electrically propelled car assisted by an ICE. As I have stipulated many times the Volt is not an EV (but can be most of the time) to refrain from the Dogma. I am not interested in resurrecting that previous Dogma, but I will not stipulate that the i3 is not competition for the Volt.
The real point in this thread is about the i3 being competition for the Tesla. It is most certainly not. It is competition for the Leaf, Volt , Spark etc. The BMW is also good for Tesla in hopes that many people will buy the i3 and realize how much they like an EV. They will also realize that the i3 is so limited, and the Tesla will be worth spending considerably more capital.
I would have never considered a Tesla. I bought a Volt. I really love the operation and the cost of ownership. The back seat is small and I can't propel it by electricity more than 42 mi without a subsequent charge. When I started learning about the Tesla Model S (I already knew about the Roadster and would have never traded the Corvette Roadster for a Tesla Roadster), I decided to trade up and replace the Volt with a Model S. Ultimately I found the Volt to be so compelling that I decided to keep it and replace the Corvette with a Model S. Another factor in EV or plug in hybrid ownership is the cost of providing a means to charge the vehicle. Because I already had a Blink charger for the Volt installed and operational, I did not need to spend money for additional circuitry or the HPWC. The Blink charges both of my cars exceptionally well. A new EV owner will also have to add the cost of having an electrical outlet available for their vehicle. To install a 40 amp 240 volt outlet in the garage of my previous home cost me over $5k due to required service upgrades. The purchase price of a Tesla with the additional capital outlay for charging will certainly be too steep for so many. Having lower priced alternatives for getting buyers into EV's or plug in hybrids is a tremendously positive scenario.
Many people that buy or lease an i3 will probably have a similar experience.
Since the discussion has now been banished to the dogma thread, I will just state that the real dispute is not over the technical meaning of the word Hybrid, it's between those who want to have the terminology clearly divide pure EVs from everything that contains an ICE, versus those who prefer to group cars where the primary mode of propulsion is electric. I have no problem coming up with a new term (I said above that I liked "significantly electrified cars" but it doesn't exactly trip off the tongue), but I believe these cars form a distinct consumer market that the Volt is part of. I know for myself when looking at new cars I considered a Volt and a Leaf (and would have considered the i3 either with or without the REX if it existed) before deciding on the Model S, but I never even remotely considered the plug in Prius (where the point of plugging in is to increase your gas mileage, not drive electric in any significant way).
Whether a BEV is better or worse off containing an ICE is an interesting discussion to have, but it isn't furthered by pretending the same customers aren't looking at both options. Obviously some have decided the question and would never go the other way, but many others haven't.
Whether a BEV is better or worse off containing an ICE is an interesting discussion to have, but it isn't furthered by pretending the same customers aren't looking at both options. Obviously some have decided the question and would never go the other way, but many others haven't.
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