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Pure BEV Dogma
- Thread starter bonnie
- Start date
scottf200
Well-Known Member
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
Sure, but if they're gonna call the Volt an EV I'm going to start calling it a gasser. I'm tired of the naming game.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "count". There's no catalog for prizes AFAIK.
"Same as 23,000 on an EV carrying an extra engine, transmission, etc. as luggage" perhaps.
Duckjybe
Member
Do we have to go through this again? Have you even driven one? Should I re-phrase? The Volt, WHEN RUNNING ON BATTERY, like other EV's..... This is all semantics. You know what we mean. And if you don't like the Volt, so be it. But like all the Tesla bashers out there that haven't driven one, perhaps you should experience the car before judging it. This kind of EV snobbery is not good for trying to convince people to move in to an extended range battery electric (or whatever you want to call it) if it suits them better.
I like the Volt. I don't like the gamesmanship and political maneuvering around the naming of technologies. Call the thing what it is. Own up to it. Until then, I can't respect or trust any conversation based on false pretenses from there forward.
To be clear: I'm not referring to you here, Duckjybe. I'm referring generally to the whole FUD with naming.
Is my phone an "EV" because I can put it on vibrate and it will move across the table (slowly)? Playing games with naming doesn't help anyone with respectable intentions.
The terminology game is, in part, why people feel they have to say "100% electric" for Tesla vehicles to trigger people to think: "Wait... there are < 100% electric vehicles, what in the world does that mean?" WITW indeed.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Volt owners keep missing the point. It has nothing to do with not liking the Volt or the capabilities of the vehicle.
Apparently some do.
- "Your wife is a brunette, not a blonde."
- "Why do you think my wife is ugly?"
- /facepalm
- "You just said..."
- "You're right. She's ugly. And she deserves a smarter husband."
Duckjybe
Member
It sure seems like you don't respect the Volt given you seem to be discounting its ability to drive like an EV. But ok.
Fair enough. I changed the wording in my post slightly. I am not trying to spread false pre-tenses just describing the merits of electric drive on the Volt. FWIW I do call the Volt a hybrid when describing it to friends - one that can drive like an EV when running on battery. Hope thats ok with the "EV language police".
I don't like that the Volt can be set to trigger the alarm (horn) if you unplug the J1772 even when it is done charging.
It has a smaller pack than would a "pure BEV", so it recharges to full more quickly, but then can be left hogging the charge space and not friendly to those who might try to "plug share" to a neighboring space.
For this reason alone, I view it a bit as an "interloper" in the EV space. If it weren't for a shortage of public J1772 spaces (around here, many are constantly occupied), I wouldn't have that reason to object.
Perhaps public EVSEs should have a meter that starts charging serious $ to park there if the vehicle is still left plugged in after the pack is already full...
It has a smaller pack than would a "pure BEV", so it recharges to full more quickly, but then can be left hogging the charge space and not friendly to those who might try to "plug share" to a neighboring space.
For this reason alone, I view it a bit as an "interloper" in the EV space. If it weren't for a shortage of public J1772 spaces (around here, many are constantly occupied), I wouldn't have that reason to object.
Perhaps public EVSEs should have a meter that starts charging serious $ to park there if the vehicle is still left plugged in after the pack is already full...
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I said nothing about discounting it's abilities, you are still missing the point, which is no matter how you use the vehicle it's still a hybrid and not an EV. I explain why that matters here: http://ephase.blogspot.com/2011/06/volt-is-not-ev.html
mknox
Well-Known Member
We run a Chevy Volt at the utility I work for (as do several other electric utilities in Ontario) for studying the impact on the grid as well as for the promotion of electric vehicles. We clearly refer to them as "Electric Vehicles", not "Hybrids". Come and get me "language police" :smile:
Duckjybe
Member
I am not missing the point. I understand perfectly well the Volt is a considered a hybrid but I do not need to be chastised and reminded of that fact every time I use Volt and EV in the same sentence. Enough.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
If spreading misinformation is your goal then carry on. A 40 mile "EV" that costs $40K and "runs out of charge in the Lincoln Tunnel" will certainly help sell more "EV's". 
I strongly disagree. Calling the Volt "a hybrid" is horribly misleading and, IMHO, far worse than calling the Volt an EV. It's like comparing apples with apples coated with a thick layer of gasoline. Even calling it a "plug-in hybrid" is somewhat misleading because it lumps it together with the PiP and Energis and the Volt has fundamental design differences from those because it's designed with the view that you'll be running in EV for most of your driving. GM took a lot of flak for calling it an EREV and then using a power-split parallel/series hybrid transmission, but that design came because they couldn't make true series design work nicely enough. Toyota and Ford took a hybrid drivetrain and added a bigger battery and in Ford's case a way of increasing the maximum EV speed (although by default it'll hybridize at highway speeds).
Also, please stop with the clutch nonsense. People panicking about clutches are stuck in the past, thinking of clutches in manuals wearing rapidly because they're controlled by humans. Once you control them by computer you'll get extremely precise operation and consequently very long lifespan. And in an HEV and especially in an "EREV" they're not used as much. The clutches are for mode-switching only. The greatest irony is that all of you clutch-obsessed people are thinking backwards: where a clutch wears fastest in an MT a PHEV uses it the least.
Personally, I'll stick to using BEV and PEV for the cars, EV for how it's running and say well done to those driving PEVs and lowering gasoline consumption (especially those who are charging their cars only off-peak instead of adding to grid pressures by charging during the day).
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
What "clutch nonsense"? Who's panicking? They use clutches, it's a perfectly accurate use of terminology, sort of my theme here. The fact is that people buy the Volt because it is a hybrid, because they don't want to drive around without an ICE backup. (By any definition it is a hybrid, specifically a subset of hybrid known as a plug in hybrid.) Then they want to pretend they are driving an EV for some reason, after specifically avoiding buying an actual EV. There is no doubt that more damage has been done by people thinking the Volt is an EV with only 40 miles of range. I run into that perception all too often. There is nothing wrong with buying a Volt if that vehicle works for you, but you don't get to pretend its something its not.
You and all the other people writing that it's complicated because it has 3 clutches as if that's somehow more complicated than having 4 pistons moving hundreds of times a minute, with fuel injected and ignited with a spark with perfect timing. It has 3 clutches which will add cost, and, yes, points of failure, but compared to other parts those clutches will get little work and they are fully computer-controlled so wear is minimized when they are used.
If you're so concerned about perception then stop calling it a hybrid. Hybrid makes people think of a Prius, and to most people a Prius is underpowered, boring and uncomfortable. The Volt, by all accounts, is none of those. It has a 16.5kWh battery and a high torque motor to make use of it. If you must use the h word, ALWAYS say "plug-in hybrid" because at least that includes the important feature of plugging in. Calling the Volt a hybrid is like saying "The Model S is a BEV like the Nissan Leaf".
Your description of a Prius has nothing to do with it being a hybrid and your desire to disassociate the Volt with the Prius doesn't change the fact that the Volt is a plug-in hybrid.
You are correct! And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just like saying a Toyota Corolla is an ICE like a BMW M5.
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