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Pure BEV Dogma

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Disagree. They chose it over an EV for a very specific reason, because it had an ICE. They made a decision to buy a hybrid instead of an EV. Yes they wanted to drive most of their miles on electricity, but they also wanted the safety net of the ICE. If it did not have the ICE, they would not have bought it.
 
The "must be pure EV" dogma holds back electrification as much as the right wing gibberish IMHO.
Exactly - I would not have bought a Model S unless my Volt got me hooked on the electric experience. Even when the gasoline engine rarely operates, the car is still propelled by an electric motor.

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I am sick of the Tesla dogmatic and pedantic terminology police and also the Volt owners' animosity towards Elon Musk and Tesla.

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I am sick of Jeep owners or former Jeep owners ranting about EREV's. At least an EREV has an electric motor.
 
Disagree. They chose it over an EV for a very specific reason, because it had an ICE. They made a decision to buy a hybrid instead of an EV. Yes they wanted to drive most of their miles on electricity, but they also wanted the safety net of the ICE. If it did not have the ICE, they would not have bought it.

I know when we weighted the desire of getting full EV but there is also the need to travel 160-220 miles at least biweekly into areas with little charging infrastructures. Model S 85kW would be the only option but at twice the price range. IMHO there are some inaccuracy of Volt buyers chose it over an EV for only the reason of a ICE safety net. Some of us are forced by the reality of the surroundings.
 
........Great, you bought a plug in hybrid and are happy with it. Why the insistence that you bought something else?

I am not stating that the Volt is not a PHEV, and never have done so. I am stating that PHEVs are both EVs and ICEs, and I bought the Volt for its EV capabilities.

GSP
 
I know when we weighted the desire of getting full EV but there is also the need to travel 160-220 miles at least biweekly into areas with little charging infrastructures. Model S 85kW would be the only option but at twice the price range. IMHO there are some inaccuracy of Volt buyers chose it over an EV for only the reason of a ICE safety net. Some of us are forced by the reality of the surroundings.
Your reality required the ICE capabilities.
I am not stating that the Volt is not a PHEV, and never have done so. I am stating that PHEVs are both EVs and ICEs, and I bought the Volt for its EV capabilities.

GSP

Yet again, you also bought it for it's ICE capabilities, without which you would not have bought it. I don't see how you can ignore half of the equation, you bought the vehicle specifically because of it's dual nature. You would not have bought a 40 mile EV.
 
Yet again, you also bought it for it's ICE capabilities, without which you would not have bought it. I don't see how you can ignore half of the equation, you bought the vehicle specifically because of it's dual nature. You would not have bought a 40 mile EV.
Most people would never buy a pure EV with less 150 mi of range. Tesla is the only option to fill the need to have more than 200 mi range. The Volt fills the void between vehicles that can't achieve 200 mi of range. I would have never bought my Model S if it had less than 200 mi of range. The Volt also fills the void for people that can't afford to pay more than $30 k for a car. The Volt fills the void for those who want to lease a vehicle. A high percentage of Volt owners rarely use the ICE; so, why rant about them or their failure to add an "ER" before "EV" when they talk about their car. There is no need to act superior to somebody that bought an EREV. This ranting is fueling animosity towards Tesla.
 
You miss my point completely. This is not about superiority in the least, as I've said repeatedly a plug in hybrid is a good choice for many, nothing wrong with it. Just use proper terminology, it's just not that difficult to do, and, most importantly, it avoids needless confusion. Prius drivers never tried to claim they were driving an EV, because that would be ridiculous, and no one was ever confused about what a Prius was.
 
You miss my point completely. This is not about superiority in the least, as I've said repeatedly a plug in hybrid is a good choice for many, nothing wrong with it. Just use proper terminology, it's just not that difficult to do, and, most importantly, it avoids needless confusion. Prius drivers never tried to claim they were driving an EV, because that would be ridiculous, and no one was ever confused about what a Prius was.

Agreed. If it has a gas engine and an electric motor/big battery then it's a hybrid. No confusion.
 
I would hate to see the green car movement devolve into a "pure EV's" camp vs "halfblood EV's". Life is too short and we need to stick together to gang up on the ICE people :)
Aren't Volt owners included in "ICE people"?

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Basically people are using "EV" as an interchangeable term with "plug-in".
How about this. My desktop computer has a tiny battery to store the settings and run the clock. Technically it could run my computer for a few fractional nanoseconds or whatever.
"Basically people are using 'laptop' as an interchangeable term with 'plug-in'... even for desktop computers."
 
There is no need to act superior to somebody that bought an EREV. This ranting is fueling animosity towards Tesla.

It's not acting superior, it's semantics and standards. EREV doesn't exist in the standards and technical literature, PHEV does. That's what most of the pure EV dogma has boiled down to lately. You want to buy a PHEV? No problem there. You want to call it an EV? Problem there.
 
BEV, pure BEV, hybrid, parallel hybrid, serial hybrid, ICE, ... it is all academic until you open the trunk, frunk, try to seat a lot of friends or get some fun in driving.
I don't mind the hybrid part until I don't notice the ICE part. Make it the size of watermelon or smaller, completely quiet, smell-less, vibration-less and without any special maintenance. AWD is also a nice feature.
Oh, and if you don't forget about cheap I'm all for such a hybrid.

Until hybrids have full size ICEs in frunk/trunk, seat only 4 people, have mediocre performance, small interior space, noises, vibrations, smells, extra maintenance I say GTFO.
Give me a good honest ICE car or a good honest BEV. Halfbloods are only half cars.
 
How about this. My desktop computer has a tiny battery to store the settings and run the clock. Technically it could run my computer for a few fractional nanoseconds or whatever.
"Basically people are using 'laptop' as an interchangeable term with 'plug-in'... even for desktop computers."
I'm not making a comment about whether it's right or wrong (as I mention, I personally prefer PHEV or plug-in), just observing that that's what people are doing here.
 
There really isn't much one can do about the semantics. When it comes to language, the majority makes the rules - it's as simple as that.

As it currently is, PHEVs are a subset of EVs. PHEVs are not however electric cars, but they are "electrified" or sometimes merely "electric". Make sense, not so much it does.

To avoid confusion, it's advisable to call electric cars "all-electric", "fully electric" or "battery electric". And PHEVs are best described as PHEVs. I would generally avoid the use of the term "EV" because the definition is vague and different people mean different things when they use the term.
 
I think I'll just start using "faux electric" when talking about vehicles that use a fuel but happen to have a battery.
All cars produced in last hundred years happen to have a battery - intended to start the ICE but it can also move the car a few meters....
Strictly speaking all those cars are already hybrids. What is so special about the prius or Volt? A bit bigger battery, thats all.
 
All cars produced in last hundred years happen to have a battery - intended to start the ICE but it can also move the car a few meters....
Strictly speaking all those cars are already hybrids. What is so special about the prius or Volt? A bit bigger battery, thats all.
The difference is that the battery in a typical ICE car is not used for propulsion, but rather for accessory loads. When it IS used for propulsion however, that DOES make it a hybrid (for example: a micro-hybrid uses the 12V battery to move the car, but in most regards is identical for a typical ICE car). By the same reasoning, an EV that uses a fuel based heater (like some Volvos with ethanol heaters) are not technically hybrids.

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There really isn't much one can do about the semantics. When it comes to language, the majority makes the rules - it's as simple as that.

As it currently is, PHEVs are a subset of EVs.
The thing is before the Volt and GM marketing came along, "EV" when used colloquially without modifiers clearly refers to "electric car" (BEV). However, GM saw the need to invent a new term: "EREV" for marketing purposes (mainly as a response to the backlash about the EV1) and also take the EV term with it. They also call the Volt an "electric car" too. They had have some success in pushing this change through marketing, but there is still a large population that still use the same EV=electric car=BEV definition. That is why there's confusion when you use "EV" without enough context, since most people assume you are talking about BEV, not something with an ICE in it.
 
There are different purposes for classifying vehicles such as taxation, standards compliance, or everyday conversational communication. I'm addressing the latter only.

Having an acronym like EREV or my suggested EV/HV alternative is useful for concise communication that is accurate for everyday discussion with normal people. I can say:

my Volt with a full charge operates like a LEAF with about 40 miles of range until the battery runs down and then operates like a regular Prius with 80% of the gas mpg. GM describes that as EREV and I call it EV/HV

and that's short, easy to understand, and highly if not perfectly accurate.

I could not say that about a Prius Plugin or even a Ford Energi without adding a paragraph worth of limitations about unusually slow accelerations, special "EV" mode buttons, speed limitations, or use of the heater starting the ICE.

I would never say "the Volt is an EV". It's obviously a hybrid when describing it as an overall vehicle. But there is a real and useful role for describing "how it operates" when you are actually driving it where EREV or EV/HV (BEV/HV?) becomes useful and captures a centrally important driving characteristic that isn't fully provided by any other production vehicle that I'm aware of. There is a need for an acronym that captures that operating characteristic.

Insisting that all vehicles with a traction battery and an ICE must be labelled only "hybrid" or "PHEV" in all circumstances is not going to reduce confusion.
 
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