That's Funny. My Volt has 25K miles 24K of which are electric. At the time I bought it it was a revolutionary idea. My P85 is leaps and bounds more advanced but I still think the VOLT is a great car for for in City Driving. The Leaf would not work for us as the Winter would cause my range to drop to 50 miles. My wife Drives the Volt and We will keep it till Model E is out.
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Pure BEV Dogma
- Thread starter bonnie
- Start date
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
And what was their solution for EV range anxiety? To not build an EV. Nothing wrong with a hybrid, just don't pretend in your marketing materials that it's really an EV. I've always said if they just marketed it as a better version of the Prius and not as an EV much confusion would have been avoided. By trying to call it an EV GM had to fight the "range anxiety" issue that they created since many people thought the Volt was an EV with only 40 miles of range.
mknox
Well-Known Member
We're probably way off in the weeds, but I contend the Volt is an EV with a range extender ICE on board. I think the design goal was to come up with something that covered a very large percentage of the average user's daily range in electric mode, and provide an option for longer trips. I do wish it had a larger battery and longer EV range, but from what I know, most Volt drivers use electricity exclusively day-to-day, but have the option to go further with minimal hassle.
I guess I'm just not hung up on it having to be a pure battery car. If it's driven by an electric motor, it's an EV to me. Don't really care where the electricity comes from.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
We've gone over this in another thread. That's the same definition that classifies a non-plug-in Prius as an EV. In technical usage this is correct (HEV for Hybrid Electric Vehicle for example), but in colloquial usage without a modifier, EV typically refers to "electric car".
In the end, it's about selling cars as an "EV" or as a "plug-in". I prefer "plug-in" for the Volt as it leads to less confusion (esp. given the low electric range of the Volt). Ford took the "plug-in" route (much like Toyota) even though their EV capabilities is much more similar to the Volt than the Prius and it's working really well for them.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Too late. However, my point as always been to properly label the vehicles to avoid confusion. Mislabeling has lead to increased confusion, and unnecessary negative press for both groups of vehicles. I've spent too much time fixing GM marketing mistakes and explaining to people that the Volt is NOT a 40 mile EV. That perception made the Volt look bad and it makes EV's in general look bad.
After a few years, when charging infrastructure has developed sufficiently, and electric vehicles are more common, they will be much less expensive and better known. All the superior qualities will be evident, and I would say its very likely at that point that many, even most consumers will prefer true Electric Vehicles without gasoline hybrid technology whether drive or range extender. All this will seem unnecessary complication and expense. Pure electric will be sufficient for nearly everything needed in a vehicle, will be simpler, and therefore less expensive to operate and maintain. No need to have gasoline in your garage. No fumes no oil products.
roblab
Active Member
I really hope we don't start getting too preachy on this issue. I would hate to see the green car movement devolve into a "pure EV's" camp vs "halfblood EV's". Life is too short and we need to stick together to gang up on the ICE people
And so? The American Kennel Club doesn't seem to recognize hybrids, and the local pound advertises that the animal for adoption has "hybrid vigor". There are lots of people who want, lets say a poodle crossed with a beagle, can find one, and will brag about their hybrid's attributes over the purebreds, but the purebreds still are at the top of the list.
Tesla is the purebred, and is at the top of the list. Volt owners are happy to tell you what their hybrid can do that your purebred can't. But people still want pure bred race horses, cats, dogs, birds, cattle, on and on.
I'm not sure where this leads as far as EVs vs ICEs go. I guess ICEs are the dinosaurs, and they will all go down. Nothing we say will change that....
You don't need to change the oil on a poodle crossed with a beagle, but you do on a Volt....:tongue:
"Therein lies the rub"... Some people don't ever want to use electricity created by burning gasoline.
With a hybrid like the Volt, you can't try to get all of your electricity from renewables when the gasoline engine comes on.
Once the battery runs down, the solar panels you put on your house aren't helping anymore.
Tesla says they will install solar panels to offset electricity used during supercharging, but there is no way for the oil companies to say that they will recreate the oil using sunlight... (Well, if they had a few million years.)
Maybe if the Volt ran on algae sourced bio-diesel we might start having a little more acceptance from that angle.
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
True, but then I'm following the recommended maintenance schedule for my Volt and it is just over 3 years old and has been driven 68,848 miles with only a single oil and filter change.
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I see people fight over which is the true single label to best describe the Volt but the Volt is best described by two labels. It has a split personality.I really hope we don't start getting too preachy on this issue. I would hate to see the green car movement devolve into a "pure EV's" camp vs "halfblood EV's". Life is too short and we need to stick together to gang up on the ICE people
It really is for all intents and purposes an EV for the first 40 miles or so and then it switches personalities and acts more or less like a Toyota or Ford hybrid with a larger battery. A Volt is first an EV and then a hybrid. GM won't admit the hybrid part. BEV purists won't admit the EV part but both parts are the most succinct and accurate labels when used together. Instead of EREV it could have been marketed as an EV/HV. First it's like a LEAF (with winter EV range) and then it's like a Ford hybrid.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think this discussion only happens within the plug-in crowd with have enough knowledge to know the distinction between the two. Most "ICE people" don't.I really hope we don't start getting too preachy on this issue. I would hate to see the green car movement devolve into a "pure EV's" camp vs "halfblood EV's". Life is too short and we need to stick together to gang up on the ICE people
I'm okay with either use as long as it doesn't lead to confusion and is clear when used in context (as in your audience knowing exactly what type of car you are talking about with no ambiguity). That's not always the case though (esp. when talking to "ICE people").
And on the original topic before it got moved here, I think most of the objection is against GM's specific usage (trying to hide the "hybrid" angle, and also things like "range anxiety" to advertise at the same time).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Right, which makes it a hybrid, always. A Prius HEV can move short distances on electricity alone, but just because it's doing so at that moment in time it's never an EV.
By design it's always a hybrid, it doesn't matter how it may be operating. No special term needed to be created for it, plug in hybrid, or PHEV, describes it quite accurately. People don't buy the Volt because it's an EV, they buy it specifically because it's a hybrid with a gas motor on board. That means it has the same "solution" for range as any ICE vehicle.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I really hope we don't start getting too preachy on this issue. I would hate to see the green car movement devolve into a "pure EV's" camp vs "halfblood EV's". Life is too short and we need to stick together to gang up on the ICE people
I'll just leave the conversation with this picture. My company is promoting the Volt as an Electric Vehicle and I know of many others that are doing the same thing. We want to get the message out that a Volt is an EV:
I did.
Although you are indeed correct in that people that choose a Volt instead of a BEV do buy because it is a hybrid with a gas engine on board.
I bought mine instead of an ICE, or non-plugin HEV, and I am very glad that I did.
GSP
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
And continuing to spread the confusion. Great job. Why not promote it as an ICE as well? Madness.
Eh? You contradict yourself with those two statements. You can't have bought a hybrid because it was an EV. Unless you were completely misinformed about what the vehicle actually was, which I doubt.
Great, you bought a plug in hybrid and are happy with it. Why the insistence that you bought something else?
Rifleman
Now owns 2 Model S's!!!
I bought mine because it was the only plug in option that I could afford that would be able to complete my daily commute 365 days a year. If there was a BEV in the same price range that could complete my 60 mile round trip commute with a decent margin (10 miles or so) on a 10 degree Fahrenheit day, I probably would be driving that instead of a Volt.
Most Volt owners I have talked to would love to drive BEV's, but choose the Volt due to a lack of BEV vehicles that meet their needs.
DuncanWatson
Member
I understand this. I eagerly await the coming of affordable 200 mile range BEVs. That seems to be the tipping point, I know it is for me. I commute with my FFE today but want a 200 mile BEV so I can ditch the ICE in my garage entirely.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That's not that accurate. They bought it for both reasons: as a plug-in (so they can drive on electricity) and as a hybrid (so they can drive on gasoline). Basically people are using "EV" as an interchangeable term with "plug-in". I agree PHEV is a better term as it combines the two.
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