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Question on charging at a charger that is not a Super Charger

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by shah007, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. shah007

    shah007 Member

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    Jan 21, 2016
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    Location:
    Reston, Virginia
    Roughly, how much time does it take to charge to 80% at a charger that is not a 'Super Charger'?

    Also, is it safe to leave my car in the Super Charger while it is charging and go inside the mall and come back after an hour or so?
     
  2. Naonak

    Naonak Member

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    Location:
    Kansas
    1. It depends on the charger. If you are at a public J1772 charger, it could be as low as a 3.3 kWh charger, meaning you would get about about 3 - 4 mi/hr charge. If it's a 6.6 kWh charger, double that. If you are at a DCFC charger, you can get up to about 170 - 190 m/h charge. As to how much time it would take, that depends on your SoC when you plug it in. If you're at 79%, it won't take long at all. If you're at 2%, it's going to take a very long time on a 3.3 kWh charger.

    2. Yes, you can leave it on the charger. But don't be rude. If it's a busy charger and you are hogging a slot someone else needs, you should not do that. If you're at a deserted charger that has plenty of open stalls all the time, then sure, go ahead and head in to the mall and have a good time. Your car will charge to it's preset limit and then just hang out waiting for you.
     
  3. shah007

    shah007 Member

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    Jan 21, 2016
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    Location:
    Reston, Virginia
    Thank you.

    How do I find out what kind of charger the facility has? I am looking at the charger in Tysons Corner (in Virginia) and it says '3 Tesla Connectors, up to 80A'. Not sure what kind of charger it would fall under based on what you said.
     
  4. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,746
    Not exactly perfect, but a Roadster using the UMC to fill its 56 kWh battery back has this chart to show estimates of filling up from empty -

    http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/charging/products/universal-mobile-connector-adapters

    What really matters is kW of power (Amps X Volts) to figure rate of recharge.

    In general, I get about 21 miles per hour on my 30A J1772 charger at home (that's 6.8kW from my wall 30A x 240V). On my NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 (I get 9.6 kW (40A X 240V), closer to 29 miles per hour on the S...

    The Model S used to have a similar chart that gave the miles per hour chart, but has been hidden for a while. (Used Internet Wayback to see if I can find an old post that shows chart.)

    Here it is from June 2014 -



    • 14-50 240 volt outlet.

      Model S comes standard with three adapters which connect to most of the outlets you’ll find at home and in the wild: a NEMA 5-15 110 volt adapter, a NEMA 14-50 240 volt adapter, and a J1772 public charging station adapter. Additional adapters are available for sale online.

      Volts / Amps Kilowatts Miles of Range per
      Hour of Charge

      NEMA 5-15[​IMG] Standard Outlet 110 V / 12 A 1.4 kW 3
      NEMA 5-20[​IMG] Newer Standard Outlet 110 V / 15 A 1.8 kW 4
      NEMA 14-50[​IMG] RVs and Campsites 240 V / 40 A 10 kW 29
      NEMA 6-50[​IMG] Welding Equipment 240 V / 40 A 10 kW 29
      NEMA 10-30[​IMG] Older Dryers 240 V / 24 A 5.8 kW 17
      NEMA 14-30[​IMG] Newer Dryers 240 V / 24 A 5.8 kW 17
    • Charge at Night
      Charging at night isn’t just convenient, it may be less expensive. Many utility companies offer Time of Use rate plans featuring prices that vary based on demand. At night, demand is lowest and prices drop.

      The Touchscreen lets you program a charging schedule to take advantage of these low rates. Plug in when you get home and Model S will begin charging automatically at the time you specify.



      • The Mobile Connector
      • Adapter Guide
      • Charge at Night



      High Power Charging
      • THE FASTEST WAY TO
        CHARGE AT HOME
        58 MILES RANGE PER HOUR OF CHARGE
        A Wall Connector is installed on a 240 volt circuit and can be supplied with up to twice the amperage as an outlet. At maximum amperage it supplies two times more power than the Single Charger can process. This is where Dual Chargers come into play, doubling the charging capacity to 20 kW to match the output of the Wall Connector.

        There’s more to the story, learn about Dual Chargers[​IMG]

        [​IMG]
        • SINGLE
          CHARGER
        • DUAL
          CHARGERS


        [​IMG]
        [​IMG]
        CHARGERS
        EXPLAINED
        The Charger is not the thing you plug into the wall, that’s a Connector. The Charger is actually on-board the car. The Connector sends Alternating Current (AC) into the Charger. The Charger then converts the power to Direct Current (DC) and sends it to the battery. You can configure your car with the Single Charger or Dual Chargers. Dual Chargers allow twice the conversion capacity as the Single Charger when the power is available.

        Think of a charger like a faucet. Just like filling a bucket, you can only fill as fast as the water can flow through the faucet. To fill the bucket faster, you need a bigger faucet.

      • THE FASTEST WAY TO CHARGE AT HOME
      • Dual ChargerS





      Charging on the Go Charging on the Go
      • SUPERCHARGE!
        300 MILES RANGE PER HOUR OF CHARGE
        The Tesla Supercharger recharges Model S quickly. Super quickly. Superchargers are for refueling quickly on road trips. A Supercharger can replenish half the battery in as little as 20 minutes. All Model S vehicles with the 85 kWh battery can use Superchargers as can properly equipped 60 kWh battery vehicles. Superchargers will be positioned at convenient locations along major interstates throughout the country.

      • PUBLIC CHARGING
        STATIONS
        Government agencies and organizations across the country are working to install public charging stations. Model S plugs into these stations with the included J1772 adapter. While many of the public stations being installed today can be used at full power with just the Single Charger, you may encounter some high amperage charging stations in the wild. If you plan to take road trips, we recommend outfitting your Model S with Dual Chargers.

        There are many resources for finding charging stations as you plan your trip. On the road, the Model S Touchscreen can help you find charging stations along the way if needed.

      • CHECK YOUR
        CHARGING STATUS
        REMOTELY

    Lastly, it's always good practice to put a sign with your contact information for Level 2 chargers. I recommend the EV Card from Plug In America or Jack Brown’s Take Charge and Go tags. Additionally, I would also recommend checking into Plugshare so that anyone looking at the location remotely will know that someone is charging, at the moment.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Dislike x 1
  5. Boourns

    Boourns Member

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    Dallas
    They are referring to Tesla High Powered Wall Connector (HWPC) units (now just called Wall Connectors). They will charge you at ~30 or just under 60 miles of range per hour, depending on whether you have single or dual chargers. (Or if you have a refreshed Model S, whether you chose the charging amperage upgrade.)
     
  6. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    Jul 23, 2013
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    Always new posts while I compose my reply...

    At 80A and dual chargers, you get the Big faucet in the old post I referenced in my first reply, if you have new charger, take away a few miles per hour because it maxes at 72A, and not 80A (assuming you bought that.)
     
  7. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    Boise, ID
    (Trying to keep current with new posts as well)

    Yeah, since sources vary so much in power level, I think most electric car drivers tend to think more in terms of "miles per hour" of charging, rather than time to fill.


    @Naonak got one of his number off a little bit. 3 to 4 miles per hour is the rate from a regular wall outlet, supplying 120V and 12A, or about 1.4kW power. At 3.3kW, it would be a little over twice that, maybe around 8-9 miles per hour.



    As to those spots you mentioned in Tyson’s Corner, here is a resource that is invaluable:

    www.plugshare.com

    Plugshare is the best, most complete, listing of charging resources. Tesla’s website seems to say “up to 80A” by default on all of the destination chargers, but many places have them installed on lower level circuits. Plugshare reports from actual users will have more accurate information. In this case, those ones are at the Hilton McLean hotel in Tyson’s Corner, correct? Those are listed in Plugshare as being 208V and 80A (16.6kW). That will probably be about 50 miles per hour of charging.



    Here is the shortcut I use to figure the rate. I know one data point for the 14-50 outlet, and then I run a ratio to the one I’m trying to figure out. Charging speed scales with the power in watts or kilowatts. The 14-50 outlet at a house with 240V and 40A (multiplied together) is 9.6 kilowatt, which is 29 miles per hour. The ones at the Hilton are 16.6kW. So back to a little high school math: 9.6kW over 29mph equals 16.6kW over X. Solve for X, and it’s 50.14mph, so it looks like my 50 guess was about right.



    *Update* As @AEdennis mentioned, your particular car may have a limit of 48 or 72A, so those ones at Tyson’s corner can supply up to 80A, but your car will be using less than that, so figure that into the calculation. 208V times 72A is 14.9kW, which is around 45mph charging.
     
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  8. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    The math is wrong. My 120V outlet at 12A (1.44kw) produces about 3-4mi/hr charge.
     
  9. Reba

    Reba Member

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    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Last time I was there, the Tyson's Corner charger has 2 parking spaces, one Tesla HPWC charger (29 mi/hr or 58 mi/hr with dual chargers), and a NEMA 14-50 wall outlet (29 mi/hr) and a sign that says something like for "urgent charging needs only". It is in high demand and often in use as far as i have seen. There is another HPWC in the marketing only section that is roped off.

    A few months ago the 8 spaces were marked as all for marketing vehicles but if there was a space open you could call the store and both chargers were not in use they could unlock one of their cars and let you charge.
     
  10. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Member

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    Location:
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    It sounds like you are referring to the Tesla store. I'm pretty sure that's not what @shah007 was referring to, since he/she used the wording of "up to 80A", which is the wording used in the destination charger program that is at hotels.
     

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