Raising the price of the 14-50 adapter

[ucmndd]

Okay; which one? Do you think everyone needs a 14-50 (because that's what you use)?

Maybe Tesla should just give everyone the Adaptor Bundle to make sure they're covered?

And while they're at it, throw in some floor mats.

And heck, let's just give everyone unlimited lifetime Supercharging and FSD.

You say Tesla is nickel-diming: I say people are just getting pissy

Sorry, silly slippery slope arguments aren’t particularly interesting to me, nor should they be to anyone else.

Pick a standard. The 14-50 was, and is, that reasonable standard. That’s why Tesla used to include it, of course. After all, they set the bar in this regard.

Or, let people choose an adapter at delivery time that meets their needs if you want to really provide a choice.

Removing it after the fact to up-sell people to a $500 wall connector is a fairly transparent act.

Raising the price of ONLY the 14-50 UMC adapter even more, for no rational reason other than it’s the one everyone wants because you previously suggested that’s the standard, is even more transparent.

 

[Rocky_H]

Pick a standard.

No. Everyone's house is different. And that's the point about electric cars is that they can recharge with electricity: fast or slow. Some people have 100A service at their house. Some people have 400A service. Some people are putting in 6-20 outlets, some 14-30, or other things. Many people are choosing many different installations to support their electric vehicles.

Or, let people choose an adapter at delivery time that meets their needs if you want to really provide a choice.

I do think that's a good choice.

Removing it after the fact to up-sell people to a $500 wall connector is a fairly transparent act.

Raising the price of ONLY the 14-50 UMC adapter even more, for no rational reason other than it’s the one everyone wants because you previously suggested that’s the standard, is even more transparent.

Or, this other reason may just not be coming to your mind. This could be trying to discourage the hording/scalping.

 

[diamond.g]

Sorry, silly slippery slope arguments aren’t particularly interesting to me, nor should they be to anyone else.

Pick a standard. The 14-50 was, and is, that reasonable standard. That’s why Tesla used to include it, of course. After all, they set the bar in this regard.

Or, let people choose an adapter at delivery time that meets their needs if you want to really provide a choice.

Removing it after the fact to up-sell people to a $500 wall connector is a fairly transparent act.

Raising the price of ONLY the 14-50 UMC adapter even more, for no rational reason other than it’s the one everyone wants because you previously suggested that’s the standard, is even more transparent.

IMO I didn’t mind the upsell. The UMC charges at a lower rate than the WC on the same 50A circuit. Raising the price of just that adapter is probably crappy, but there are alternatives (that sadly cost more).

But I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[Nayston]

Let’s face it. It’s an expensive car. It isn’t a $20 toy that doesn’t come with a pack of $5 AA batteries. The car should come with both the ability to charge through a 120V outlet and a 240V outlet. Period. It’s an expensive car and it is completely reasonable for it to come with the most popular charging options. It is very clearly a financial decision for the cars not to come with the 14-50 solution.

 

[diamond.g]

Let’s face it. It’s an expensive car. It isn’t a $20 toy that doesn’t come with a pack of $5 AA batteries. The car should come with both the ability to charge through a 120V outlet and a 240V outlet. Period. It’s an expensive car and it is completely reasonable for it to come with the most popular charging options. It is very clearly a financial decision for the cars not to come with the 14-50 solution.

Would you trade the J1772 adapter for the 14-50 plug?

 

[Nayston]

Would you trade the J1772 adapter for the 14-50 plug?

I fail to see what one has to do with the other. I just said it was a clear financial decision to remove a 14-50 plug from the purchase of a new car. Are you saying that it wasn't a financial decision?

With that said, since the J1772 adapter doesn't have anything to do with allowing a Tesla to charge via a Tesla charger, I see no reason why a J1772 adapter should come with a car. The 2 major standards to charge a Tesla from home should come with the car; which is 110V and a 240V 14-50 adapter. Any other less common, non-standard adapters, along with any adapters that allow a Tesla to charge at a non-Tesla charger, can be purchased separately by the owner.

 

[diamond.g]

I fail to see what one has to do with the other. I just said it was a clear financial decision to remove a 14-50 plug from the purchase of a new car. Are you saying that it wasn't a financial decision?

With that said, since the J1772 adapter doesn't have anything to do with allowing a Tesla to charge via a Tesla charger, I see no reason why a J1772 adapter should come with a car. The 2 major standards to charge a Tesla from home should come with the car; which is 110V and a 240V 14-50 adapter. Any other less common, non-standard adapters, along with any adapters that allow a Tesla to charge at a non-Tesla charger, can be purchased separately by the owner.

If it were financial, the J1772 adapter costs more than the 14-50 one.

I am not saying for sure it was, I was just saying they probably noticed most folk don’t use it (being fair I also assume most folk don’t use the J1772 adapter either).

 

[JVINFL]

My guess is to why Tesla dropped the 240V adapters is for the same reason when you buy a 240V appliance, they do not come with a cord. Local electrical codes for 240V circuits vary across the country. I offer 3 & 4 prong Dryer cords and 3 & 4 prong electric range cords to my customers. It's most efficient and economical for both the customer and Tesla to make the adapter a separate purchase. Tesla isn't spending dollars to manufacture too many of each type of adapter and and the customer isn't paying for an adapter which isn't needed in their situation. Seems to me a win - win for both.

 

[Rocky_H]

The car should come with both the ability to charge through a 120V outlet and a 240V outlet. Period.

But which one? 6-20? 6-30? 10-30? 14-30? People use all of these.

 

[JCtx]

The car should come with both the ability to charge through a 120V outlet and a 240V outlet. Period. It’s an expensive car and it is completely reasonable for it to come with the most popular charging options. It is very clearly a financial decision for the cars not to come with the 14-50 solution.

Indeed... and it did. And the J1772 adapter too, which at least it's still included. What's even more insulting is not only not include the adapter now, but not having it readily available, and even raise the price just for that one, since it's the most popular. That nickel and diming is what insults a lot of people, including me. Increase the price by that much, but don't freaking remove features included before. I HATE that practice. And in Tesla's case, they don't make enough, and then have the nerve to increase the price of just that one. Geez. And it's not about the money; all of us can pay for that. It's the principle. To me, it's stupid to antagonize customers for petty stuff like that, since they're not always going to be monopolizing the EV market. I'm a Tesla owner, but FAR from a Tesla fan, and even less a Musk fan. It was just the best EV at the moment. We'll see next time .

 

[Nayston]

But which one? 6-20? 6-30? 10-30? 14-30? People use all of these.

The 14-50 solution is by far the more popular solution compared to those other ones. If the owner wants to use some obscure 6-30 connector then they can get an adapter themselves.

 

[eladts]

The 14-50 solution is by far the more popular solution compared to those other ones. If the owner wants to use some obscure 6-30 connector then they can get an adapter themselves.

There is no technical reason to use 14-50 over 6-50, which still costs $35.

 

[Nayston]

There is no technical reason to use 14-50 over 6-50, which still costs $35.

Except for the fact that 14-50 is better and much more common. The 14-50 has a neutral so it can be used for other functions as well. Why buy a car like this and then skimp on the outlet buy not running an extra wire?

Back to the point of the thread. Since the 14-50 is by far the most common way to run a 240V (and the best), the care should come with that adapter. Raise the cost of the vehicle $50 and include it if Tesla wants to. It looks crappy on their part not to include it. It's no different than buying a $1,000 phone from Apple and not having the charging cable included.

 

[wws]

The Taycan comes with a charging cable setup similar to the Tesla UMC. Choices for 240V include 6-30, 6-50, 14-30, and 14-50. You get your choice of one with the car. (By default, 14-50.) The additional "dongles" for other plug types are like $200 USD each! So $35/$45 each for Tesla UMC adapters seems like a bargain by comparison...

 

[wws]

Except for the fact that 14-50 is better and much more common. The 14-50 has a neutral so it can be used for other functions as well. Why buy a car like this and then skimp on the outlet buy not running an extra wire?

Back to the point of the thread. Since the 14-50 is by far the most common way to run a 240V (and the best), the care should come with that adapter. Raise the cost of the vehicle $50 and include it if Tesla wants to. It looks crappy on their part not to include it. It's no different than buying a $1,000 phone from Apple and not having the charging cable included.

For home charging, 14-30s may be more commonly available than 14-50s. This because homes generally have laundry facilities and therefore have a 240V/30A circuit for an electric clothes dryer. Here in California, where we don't have these places called "basements" in our homes, the laundry stuff is often relegated to the garage. If one has a gas clothes dryer, it leaves a nice 30 amp receptacle available for the car.

I've long thought that the Tesla 14-30 adapter should elide the neutral blade. That way it would plug into both 14-30, 14-50, and the very rare 14-60(*) - albeit at 24 amps max in all cases. So the one adapter would cover more use cases. I regularly use the circuit in my garage at 24 amps and find it is fine for overnight charging.

(*) The only place I've seen 14-60s in the wild were in the hallways of a local hospital's wards. Not a place one would generally park a car...

 

[eladts]

Except for the fact that 14-50 is better and much more common. The 14-50 has a neutral so it can be used for other functions as well. Why buy a car like this and then skimp on the outlet buy not running an extra wire?

Back to the point of the thread. Since the 14-50 is by far the most common way to run a 240V (and the best), the care should come with that adapter. Raise the cost of the vehicle $50 and include it if Tesla wants to. It looks crappy on their part not to include it. It's no different than buying a $1,000 phone from Apple and not having the charging cable included.

The neutral is only useful if you want to have both 240V and 120V, like in an RV. For EV charging it is useless. Most EV owners do not need to power an RV in their home.

Raising the car price by $50 and keep including the 14-50 adapter will only create waste. I have got the 14-50 adapter with my car and have never used it since.

I've long thought that the Tesla 14-30 adapter should elide the neutral blade. That way it would plug into both 14-30, 14-50, and the very rare 14-60(*) - albeit at 24 amps max in all cases. So the one adapter would cover more use cases. I regularly use the circuit in my garage at 24 amps and find it is fine for overnight charging.

Tesla isn't allowed to sell such adapters, as there isn't a NEMA 14-30 without the neutral blade standard.

 

[Sklith]

When I sold my 2018 Model 3 to Carvana after I bought my 2019 one, I kept the 240V adapter.

 

[wws]

Tesla isn't allowed to sell such adapters, as there isn't a NEMA 14-30 without the neutral blade standard.

Obviously the 14-series receptacle in the wall would still need to be wired properly with a neutral to meet Code. But I don't think there is a restriction on the 14-series _plug_ eliding the neutral blade. And again, there would be a 30 amp (24 continuous) restriction on the adapter/car side so that any of the three receptacle types would safely handle the load. In a sense, it isn't any different than plugging a table lamp with a 1-15 plug into a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle.

 

[Rocky_H]

But I don't think there is a restriction on the 14-series _plug_ eliding the neutral blade. [...]In a sense, it isn't any different than plugging a table lamp with a 1-15 plug into a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle.

Those are vastly different situations that you cannot compare.
The 1-15 is an official UL approved NEMA plug type. The 5-15 and 5-20 outlets are also UL approved NEMA outlet types that are officially built with the backward compatibility to accept 1-15 plugs on purpose.

So going back to your first statement, is there a "restriction"? Well, obviously anyone can sell any homemade, hokey, unofficial, unapproved stuff they want to online, but it can't be UL approved, and that is the reason Tesla would not want to sell something like that.

 

[eladts]

Obviously the 14-series receptacle in the wall would still need to be wired properly with a neutral to meet Code. But I don't think there is a restriction on the 14-series _plug_ eliding the neutral blade. And again, there would be a 30 amp (24 continuous) restriction on the adapter/car side so that any of the three receptacle types would safely handle the load. In a sense, it isn't any different than plugging a table lamp with a 1-15 plug into a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle.

There is a difference. NEMA 1-15 is a standard, NEMA 14-30 without neutral isn't. NEMA 14-30 plugs mush have the neutral blade, even if it is not connected to anything. Similarly BS-1363 plugs used in the UK must have a ground blade, even when connected to devices that don't need grounding and would use NEMA 1-15 plugs in the US.