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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

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13% arrival in good weather is no problem at all. I’m comfortable with half that.
Agreed. In good weather I'm fine with a 6-8% arrival prediction when I'm at ~50-60% of the battery.

I don't trust the miles based range estimates on the screen much at all. On road trips I'm watching battery percentage, consumption rates and doing my own math.

I road trip a lot. My two cents - push it. You always have the option to slow down. The difference in consumption b/w 80 mph and 60 mph is enormous. And it's generally faster to slow down such that you can skip a SC. Plus seeing the number close to the edge has the side effect of ensuring you are REALLY focused on the drive. ;)
 
Hi.

12 months ago, 100% charge would get me 294 range in miles, at least on my screen....

A year later and this is now 267 for a100% charge. As advised I have been letting my battery drop to sound 50% less when it's been possible.....

Precisely as @AlanSubie4Life says, it doenst make much sense having lost very little in the first four years ans loosing another 10% the next year.

Are you sure that you had 294 miles one year back?

I would say that your battery started with ~ 77.8 kWh capacity and lost, perhaps slightly less than 5% the first year (based on the area snd average temperatures in general, this can be fime tuned from your charging data habits etc.).
So after one year = ~ 74kWh. This would be sufficient for about 302 miles.
After two years ~ 72.5 kWh = 296 miles
After three years ~ 71 kWh = 290 miles
After four years ~ 70 kWh = 286 miles
After five years ~ 69 kWh = 282 miles

( above calculated on ~ 5% calendar agibg the first year, we could expect your car to be slightly better due to the not that hot climate).

What SOC did your car mostly be at? I didnt quite get the ”drop to sound 50%”.

What to do?
First, take a picture* of the energy screen and post here, then we can calcultate the BMS capacity estimate.

Next, if the above calc seems off a BMS calibration might reset the capacity calculation. We can get back to that part if needed.

*) like this; should show the three circled values in the same picture and setting down right need to be ”normal range”.
IMG_2330.jpeg
 
Generally never go over 80 unless going on a long trip. What is SOC?

I do struggle to do it to 10% to be honest.

Interesting actually to see what people have taken theirs down to. I was in a trip yesterday and had the choice to wait until I reached the charger I wanted to but battery was expected to be on 13% on arrival. I bottled it and stopped at another one before.... Had anyone rushed taking it so low and does it work until across hitting zero?
Zero on screen means there ”should” be another 4.5% below that.

0% should be resonably safe from getting stranded, but the older the car get (BMS might be off) a little margin might be good).
 
Are you charging it past 80% for daily use? A daily charge to 100% should be avoided unless you are immediately heading out on a road trip.
This is not really true.

If it was very important to drive asap, Tesla would probably put that in the manual.

IRL, the drive asap is a myth. 100% do age the battery in about the same rate as 80%.

I guess ypur answer was aimed to Snos rap75? (NCA chemistry)
The real difference is being at or below 55% on the screen. That cuts the calendar aging in half.
In a perfect world you should keep the SOC between 40% and 70% with that battery.
No, that isn’t true either I’m afraid.
For LFP 70% and below is good.
For NCA 55% and below is good.

This is how Panasonic NCA cells age from time:
The lower the SOC, the better (but 0% is not that practical for using the car :) )

See the difference between 55 and 60%?
Thats causes by the cebtral graphite peak, and the exact position is around 57% on a new cell which correlates to 55% displayed.
IMG_4903.jpeg


According to Tesla, 80/20 is fine too.
Tesla doenst really say to stay between 80 to 20%, do they?
 
My five year old 2019 M3LR with 124,431 miles on it gets 90% of the EPA range. I’ve always charged to 90% on no-commute days and until recently commuted 3+ days a week at the far end of my range. I’d schedule charges to 100% and return home with between 4% to 7% battery remaining. We travel a lot (NC to WA last September) and just got home today from my brother’s house 232 miles away in SC.

I guess what I’m trying to convey is that you don’t need to baby your car. Drive & enjoy.
 
I guess what I’m trying to convey is that you don’t need to baby your car. Drive & enjoy.
That is definitely fine to do. And the batteries have held up well regardless, so far.

Some people just like to minimize their capacity loss to maximize utility of the vehicle - for those very long stretches that you talk about it's nice to not have to worry about a Supercharger stop. And that can be done with no loss of utility for most owners, keeping below ~55% for NCA most of the time. Saving 2-3kWh of loss over 3-5 years might make a difference on some of these longer segments.
 
My five year old 2019 M3LR with 124,431 miles on it gets 90% of the EPA range.
Thats about the same as where I get the calculation from 5 years at 90% at NC average temp.
Driving more than average probably cause the average SOC to be slightly lower than a low mileage car that usually charhes to 80-90%

So, 4.5% calendar aging or so the first year and ~ 10% in total, plus a couple of percent for the cycles.

~ 90% range means around 12% total degradation so that matches.
I guess what I’m trying to convey is that you don’t need to baby your car. Drive & enjoy.

Theres no need to baby it.
You could have had around 4% displayed range though, if you had used the low SOC strategy.
 
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>Drive and enjoy

That is definitely fine to do. And the batteries have held up well regardless, so far.

Some people just like to minimize their capacity loss to maximize utility of the vehicle - for those very long stretches that you talk about it's nice to not have to worry about a Supercharger stop.
I'll go further and say that some people (like me) just can't help optimizing. I know I'll probably buy a new one before range loss is an issue, but if the LFP will be happier under 70%, that's damn well what I'm going to do!
 
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I'll go further and say that some people (like me) just can't help optimizing. I know I'll probably buy a new one before range loss is an issue, but if the LFP will be happier under 70%, that's damn well what I'm going to do!
This is how I feel too. It would be a pigs flying situation for me to have the car in four years but still I'm all in on minimizing the degradation. It's an OCD thing.
 
Hi. Apologies if my question has been answered a thousand times. I have a 2018 Model 3 AWD dual motor with 80,000 miles. For a long time I could get to 280 miles when charged to 90% capacity. Over the past few months, the best range I can get is 244 miles after charging to 90%. I almost never fully charge unless going on a long trip. My daily commute is 60 miles round trip, almost all highway.

Is there a problem with my home charger or my car's battery? What is going on here?
 
Hi. Apologies if my question has been answered a thousand times. I have a 2018 Model 3 AWD dual motor with 80,000 miles. For a long time I could get to 280 miles when charged to 90% capacity. Over the past few months, the best range I can get is 244 miles after charging to 90%. I almost never fully charge unless going on a long trip. My daily commute is 60 miles round trip, almost all highway.

Is there a problem with my home charger or my car's battery? What is going on here?
Original EPA estimated range was 310 when new so if you charged to 90% you'd be likely to see about 279 miles of range. If you got 280 that is pretty good battery health and not typical after a year or two. If you are now at 244 with 80k miles and the car is 6 years old you are at 12.5% degradation which is on the high side of expected but also note that your BMS may not be calibrated. Out of curiosity, what is your daily charge limit for normal driving? I'd suggest doing a battery health check (forum search on how) and see what it says and then report back. Edit, added typical degradation chart:

1718815247037.png
 
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Hello members,
I got a problem with fast battery degradation after around 8 charge sessions, I check capacity with tessie and it usually shows me 67-68kwh left depending on battery temperature I believe, but it started dropping from this amount to ~62-63 kwh without any reasons. Just each charge it drops. I usually charge it to 80% and discharge to 30-40, sometimes to 20% and not below, using AC 220V 25-32A. My visible range (which you can change to %) dropped too to around 420km (from ~460). Also I used air conditioning enable if interior temperature is above 40 celcius, so each time I come to car there was climate running and I guess the car never "slept", few days ago I disabled this feature at all so car can deep sleep. I do not actually believe battery can lose around 5kwh in just 1000 miles so I guess its a calibration issue. Ive read that NCA batteries need calibration too and tesla suggests charging it from time to time to 100%. Ive seen a video on YT where an author describes how battery work and suggests to charge NCA battery to 100% and leave it until charging stops itself.
So questions are:
1. Should I even try to charge it to 100%, I heard if SOC coming to 100% it triggers BMS to start balancing battery
2. Should I instantly drive a car after it stops charging itself on 100% or its required to leave it for a while plugged to charger and wait or should I unplug it?
3. Mileage is 133k kilometers so I dont believe it can overcharge and damage battery on this mileage since packs are already tired, or should I worry about that? I realise I need to charge it during day time because its very warm outside and SOC usually increases when battery gets warm

P.S. When I bought the car 25k kilometers before I charged it to 100% and left the car plugged to charger for a day or so and mileage increased from 455 to 470+ without any damages and during these 25k km Ive driven capacity was around the same depending on how its warm or cold outisde

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
 
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
The suggestion I would make is that battery ranges are estimates and fluctuate especially as the battery gains or loses warmth after sitting, so consider any information on this from a third party app to be "right now this second what the BMS thinks" and "for information purposes only".
 
The suggestion I would make is that battery ranges are estimates and fluctuate especially as the battery gains or loses warmth after sitting, so consider any information on this from a third party app to be "right now this second what the BMS thinks" and "for information purposes only".
I literally cant definitely check the real range of car because usually consumption is every time different. Its from 16 to 19kwh / 100km. But im not satisfied with what I see on tessie because Im using it for a year and a lot of charges, so usually it shows up to 5 kwh more than I got now. One more thing is usually visible capacity drops when car is slowly charging in winter time, battery is cold, less kwh available, but now its hot outside, I guess around 25-28 celcius even in night time. Just its too weird
 
I literally cant definitely check the real range of car because usually consumption is every time different. Its from 16 to 19kwh / 100km. But im not satisfied with what I see on tessie because Im using it for a year and a lot of charges, so usually it shows up to 5 kwh more than I got now. One more thing is usually visible capacity drops when car is slowly charging in winter time, battery is cold, less kwh available, but now its hot outside, I guess around 25-28 celcius even in night time. Just its too weird

 
yes, I do know about that, this method showed me ~63kwh which still differs from 1.5k km ago ~68