Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[jjrandorin]

I know there are other threads with this topic however, I wanted to highlight another battery issue.

This isnt "another battery issue" its the same one. Also, You are completely utterly wasting your time with a mobile service appointment. Tesla will cancel it, tell you they did remote diagnostic and its in spec, and maybe quote to you the battery warranty which is 70% capacity at 8 years or 125k miles for your car.

Until your car has 220miles showing at 100%, you are completely wasting your time reporting anything at all to tesla on the subject of battery degradation.

 

[joebruin77]

I know there are other threads with this topic however, I wanted to highlight another battery issue. One year anniversary with my 2021 M3P, and I've now noticed that my 100% battery capacity is 285 miles. This is an approximate 10% loss from the Tesla claimed 315-mile range. My daily charging is 80-90%, and after 18000 miles in one year I use 40-50% on average per day. Now, I don't believe this car ever had the Tesla advertised 315, to begin with, but there is a substantial loss after one year. I wanted to share this with others with the same battery to take notice and to hear others that might have the same issue. Mobile service is set for Friday, December 12th. I will update afterward.

You may want to use Stats for Tesla or similar app to get more accurate data on your actual battery degradation. The app shows you both your rated range as well as your estimated range. For example, right now, the rated range for my 2018 P3D is 307 but my estimated range is only 260 (most likely due to some prolonged morning defrosting before departure). In addition, there are graphs that show your battery degradation over time and one that compares your maximum rated range to the maximum rated range of every other Model 3 that uses Stats For Tesla.

Also, of course consider the basics such as keeping your tire pressure at recommended levels (esp during the colder winter months), minimize heater use, and drive "efficiently" (keep the Tesla smiles to a minimum, etc).

 

[yakabebe]

what efficiency do you get normally?

Hi

Ive only just started to use the tezla app but have had the car about 4 months and the rate of usage and the need to recharge has remained fairly constant

Pretty sure Tesla collects my data .is there somewhere where there is a collation of all my drives and data?

 

[Stokkes]

Hey all

Sorry didn't read all 170+ pages. Got my 2022 M3P on Wednesday and charging to 100% showed 503 KM of range. I haven't been driving it (58KM on the odometer) as I'm waiting for my PPF appointment which is tomorrow.

Tonight it's showing 490KM range at 100%. That's a loss of 13km in 5 days. Is this normal - something I should be concerned about?

As a new EV owner I'm not concerned about range anxiety for regular driving but am concerned about battery degradation.

Note it is cold here in Canada so that may play a factor.

Thanks and sorry for the potentially dumb question

Thanks!

 

[Candleflame]

Hi

Ive only just started to use the tezla app but have had the car about 4 months and the rate of usage and the need to recharge has remained fairly constant

Pretty sure Tesla collects my data .is there somewhere where there is a collation of all my drives and data?

Just look at the car computer.

 

[jjrandorin]

Tonight it's showing 490KM range at 100%. That's a loss of 13km in 5 days. Is this normal - something I should be concerned about?

No, not unless you you are actually charging to 100% every day, which I doubt. Just charge it to 80 or 90%, try not to drain it to a very low percentage and let it sit there, and drive. There isnt much you can do that will make much difference other than those two things.

As for "should you be concerned", since there is nothing tesla would do for you unless or until you hit 30% degredation, as measured by the cars information (not some third party tool), I would say no. The car is going to degrade somewhere between, in average, 5% to 10% the first year.

 

[ScoobyRVA]

So I did some searching but could not come up with an answer. The M3P is rated for 315 miles. Now, I know nobody charges to 100% or lets it drain to 0%, but does that figure take into account some regenerative braking or would that only increase the potential range?

 

[Kimmi]

You will never get close to the rated range.

 

[RayK]

People will on occasion charge to 100%; expected long distance trip, for example. In some (rare) cases people will allow the car to drain to 0% but for sure not on a regular basis. That said, the 315 mile of range is an estimate based upon the current state of charge of the battery (a new one in the best case) and the average energy consumption rating based upon tested data. If you have a light right foot, then yes, maybe you can get 315 miles from 100% down to 0% but for most people, I'd say it's somewhat less than that. The regenerative braking will add range but that would obviously only be done with stop-and-go driving, not highway cruising where regen will not be happening all that much. Also a drop in elevation from your starting point will help with keeping your range at the maximum.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

It assumes *all* braking is regenerative. There is no portion of the EPA test that requires braking so hard that the friction pads would be needed.

 

[ElectricIAC]

So I did some searching but could not come up with an answer. The M3P is rated for 315 miles. Now, I know nobody charges to 100% or lets it drain to 0%, but does that figure take into account some regenerative braking or would that only increase the potential range?

Think of rated range like you would of applying for home loans before 2008/2009.

Creativity is/was encouraged.

 

[MackT83]

This isnt "another battery issue" its the same one. Also, You are completely utterly wasting your time with a mobile service appointment. Tesla will cancel it, tell you they did remote diagnostic and its in spec, and maybe quote to you the battery warranty which is 70% capacity at 8 years or 125k miles for your car.

Until your car has 220miles showing at 100%, you are completely wasting your time reporting anything at all to tesla on the subject of battery degradation

You may want to use Stats for Tesla or similar app to get more accurate data on your actual battery degradation. The app shows you both your rated range as well as your estimated range. For example, right now, the rated range for my 2018 P3D is 307 but my estimated range is only 260 (most likely due to some prolonged morning defrosting before departure). In addition, there are graphs that show your battery degradation over time and one that compares your maximum rated range to the maximum rated range of every other Model 3 that uses Stats For Tesla.

Also, of course consider the basics such as keeping your tire pressure at recommended levels (esp during the colder winter months), minimize heater use, and drive "efficiently" (keep the Tesla smiles to a minimum, etc).

Thank you joebruin for the awesome advice and suggesting the Stats app. Never heard of it. So much better feedback than just telling me I'm waisting my time. SMH

 

[jjrandorin]

Thank you joebruin for the awesome advice and suggesting the Stats app. Never heard of it. So much better feedback than just telling me I'm waisting my time. SMH

The stats app is going to give you "battery degradation" information that may or may not be accurate, you are likely going to get more upset, then what? There is literally nothing you can do beside get upset and and stew about it. Tesla is not going to do a thing, and will not accept anything in any third party app as confirmation of anything, even if it said you had 30% degradation.

Also, sometimes these apps, if not configured correctly, can keep the car awake (leading to higher daily battery drain, more charging, etc)

I was trying to give you real, truthful information about what you can and cant do, but people want to stress about this anyway. The "Im gonna call tesla" when you have 10% degredation is such a big waste of time that it has caused the tesla service centers to completely ignore ANY mention of battery a user makes, because so many people contact them and try to make service appointments for "my car charges to 18 less miles than it used to, its broken right?"

 

[Rocky_H]

The "Im gonna call tesla" when you have 10% degredation is such a big waste of time that it has caused the tesla service centers to completely ignore ANY mention of battery a user makes,

This is quite a big thing. People who actually do have real battery defects and problems can't get Tesla to listen because of this. The service people are overwhelmed with these constant nonsense gripes about small battery deviation that it has caused them to turn up their B.S. filters to "super high" so they blow off everyone complaining about their batteries. And that's pretty understandable since 90% of them are bogus and wasting their time.

 

[yakabebe]

I see the most common recommendation is to charge to 80-90%

Yet in the Tesla (au) info it seems to suggest otherwise for the rear wheel drive models

So now Im confused...(not that hard )

Your Charging Habits​

Charging Routine

• Maintain a regular, every-day charging routine using a low-voltage charger (i.e. Wall Connector at your home). Avoid allowing the battery to get too low in charge.
• Only use DC Fast Charging (i.e. Supercharging) when necessary, such as during long road trips.
• Charge the battery to the appropriate charge limit for your vehicle based on the installed battery. To adjust the charge limit for your vehicle, open the Charging screen on your touchscreen and then touch ‘Set Limit’ or open the Charging screen in your mobile app and drag the slider.
  • For Rear-Wheel Drive vehicles,
    If the image of the battery displays ‘50%’ and ‘100%’: Tesla recommends that you keep your charge limit to 100%, even for daily use, and that you also regularly charge your vehicle to 100% . If your vehicle has been parked for longer than a week, Tesla recommends driving your vehicle as you normally would and charge to 100% at your earliest convenience.
    If the image of the Battery displays ‘Daily’ and ‘Trip’: keep the full charge limit of the battery to under 90% for daily use by using the mobile app or vehicle’s touchscreen to set charge limit within the ‘Daily’ range. If you need the full range (i.e. 100%) of your battery for a long-distance trip, you can increase the limit to the ‘Trip’ range (>90%) as necessary.
  • For All-Wheel Drive vehicles, keep the full charge limit of the battery to under 90% for daily use by using the mobile app or vehicle’s touchscreen to set charge limit within the ‘Daily’ range. If you need the full range (i.e. 100%) of your battery for a long-distance trip, you can increase the limit to the ‘Trip’ range (>90%) as necessary.

 

[HelixSpiral]

^^^ That's for the newer RWD (formerly called SR+) cars that use the LFP batteries. You can see the two separate sections there. The first talks about charging to 100% and the second says 90%.

 

[Rocky_H]

I see the most common recommendation is to charge to 80-90%

Yet in the Tesla (au) info it seems to suggest otherwise for the rear wheel drive models

So now Im confused...(not that hard )

That is an entirely different battery chemistry being made in China. Read what the wording says very specifically there. It says, "If the image of the battery displays 50% and 100". Most of the normal Teslas people have DO NOT have that on the battery display. They have two sections: 50%-90% and then 90%-100%. And on those cars, if you use that 90% to 100% area a few days in a row, it will display a warning to you that it's not good to do that constantly.
That is where people are recommending to use somewhere below that 90% level.

 

[btcutter]

Newbie here. Gone through pages of great information by you all. I do have a question though.

My setting based on this threads recommendation:
Set my MYLR SoC at. 55% daily. Typically only use 10-15 % daily commute.
Daily plug in as suggested. Set time for departure at 7:45 am and off-peak charging (ends at 6am). Plug in car around 9 pm.

If using only off peak charging and setting departure at 7:45 am that mean the car is only drawing power from my 14-50 to charge between 4-6 am. Is the car using external power to keep battery warm and other basic function until 6am then drawing power from battery after 6 am? Doesn't select "off peak charging" defeats the purpose of keeping it plugged in all the time? Especially on weekends where I may not get out till noon.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lephturn]

I managed to read through just about every page of this great thread. I have a Sept. 2021 M3SR+ with the early 21 battery pack, not the new LFP pack. I will summarize what I have learned.

1. Most capacity loss is due to calendar aging, although higher ambient temperatures and higher average SOC can make that worse.
2. SOC at rest is the next biggest driver of capacity degradation. Having the car sit below 55% will minimize reduce this degradation, although lower is better.
3. Charging to higher SOC is of minimal impact if you drive the car right away. Better to have the car sit at 20% while not charging, then charge to 80% right before driving it such as at a Supercharger.
4. Supercharging at 2C is roughly optimal for minimizing degradation due to cycles, and charging from 25-55% is less damaging than from 60-85%.

Lastly, I am not sure I understand what 2C is for my car. I know that is far out of the range of any AC charger so only DC charging applies, but if I have the time and availability of a Supercharger, what KW limit = 2C? About 110?

 

[jjrandorin]

Newbie here. Gone through pages of great information by you all. I do have a question though.

My setting based on this threads recommendation:
Set my MYLR SoC at. 55% daily. Typically only use 10-15 % daily commute.
Daily plug in as suggested. Set time for departure at 7:45 am and off-peak charging (ends at 6am). Plug in car around 9 pm.

If using only off peak charging and setting departure at 7:45 am that mean the car is only drawing power from my 14-50 to charge between 4-6 am. Is the car using external power to keep battery warm and other basic function until 6am then drawing power from battery after 6 am? Doesn't select "off peak charging" defeats the purpose of keeping it plugged in all the time? Especially on weekends where I may not get out till noon.

Thanks in advance.

The scheduled departure thing is a bit hit or miss, at least in my estimation. I personally dont use it. The purpose is supposed to be to let the car charge and warm the battery (if needed) on shore power, thereby using energy from the wall instead of the battery when you start your trip.

The way I look at that particular feature is, it might matter more if I was actually going on a trip, or expecting to have to hit a supercharger on my trip, but in normal cases, whether the car warms the battery on shore power or from the internal battery, I am still paying for that electricity in either case. If my commute wont include charging, then it kind of doesnt matter.

At least, thats how I choose to view it. Since thats the case, I just use scheduled charging, and have it set to like 3am, so its always done by 6am in my case (I have a wall connector with 60amp circuit, 48amp charging, for my model 3).

Comes down to personal preference. I have always read a ton of threads about scheduled charging being flakey, what happens if I dont leave when I am normally scheduled, etc, so I have avoided using that particular feature.